Community highlights, CCS updates, Workgroup report, 0.15 naming discussion, and miscellaneous
dev diaries
crypto
el00ruobuob / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
Logs
<sgp_> Meeting time <sgp_> 0. Introduction <sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting! <sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/405 <sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. Fun fact: you are awesome :) <sgp_> 1. Greetings <el00ruobuob_[m]> Hello! <sgp_> ping dEBRUYNE rehrar ErCiccione[m] xmrscott[m] <ErCiccione[m]> Hi all. Thanks for the ping sgp_ <sgp_> needmonero90 dsc_ gingeropolous sarang <gingeropolous> yo <sgp_> hopefully more people pour in later <sgp_> 2. Community highlights <sgp_> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com <sgp_> Reminder that 0.15 is expected on October 31, with the scheduled protocol upgrade on November 30: https://getmonero.org/2019/10/01/announcement-release-0-15.html <needmonero90> Oh, right, meetings are a thing on Saturdays <sgp_> The code is frozen! Get testing! <sgp_> We tried out a gaming session two weeks ago, and we had our coffee chat last week which was excellent despite technical challenges. <sgp_> Are there any outstanding questions regarding the upcoming update, or does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share? <needmonero90> Last coffee chat was packed <needmonero90> We need that more <sgp_> super stacked lineup indeed :) <msvb-mob> Hello. <needmonero90> I expect you're going to link your poll soon enough, so I'll hold off <sgp_> yup :) <sgp_> needmonero90: can you create that update thread for exchanges in r/xmrtrader? <needmonero90> Will do during this meeting. <sgp_> excellent <thunderosa> I guess it's a community update. The new Monero Pool UI is coming out in the next few days. Half the size, twice the speed, new features etc. <sgp_> did someone else volunteer for the mining pool list for r/moneromining? I don't recall if I signed up for that <xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Hey. I'm in Mexico right now. <xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Won't be back home for a few hours. <needmonero90> Okay amigo <sgp_> thunderosa: very cool <rottensox> what i miss. <xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Left a comment on the meta issue of the meeting. <sgp_> rehrar: yes, I added a section to discuss :) <sgp_> let's proceed <sgp_> 3. CCS updates <sgp_> Funding required:' <sgp_> Rehrar to 36C3 (4.42 / 58.65) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/rehrar-36c3-expenses.html <sgp_> Multiple features and fixes for getmonero.org: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-website.html <sgp_> Ziphon’s request was overfunded! https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/xiphon-part-time-2.html <sgp_> *xiphon <sgp_> Ideas (to be discussed): <sgp_> WIP: Norwegian translation (3 XMR): https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/102, and <sgp_> moneromooo, from November 2019 (395 XMR): https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/103 <needmonero90> Xiphon* <needmonero90> Oh you corrected my nad <needmonero90> Bad <sgp_> any comments? or shall I take the silence as approval? <needmonero90> My silence is approval on everything other than the rehrar funding proposal, which has its own issues that have been discussed <needmonero90> Not sure if it's resolved, but I'll take it to back channels first <needmonero90> (issues meaning the speed at which it was merged, potential for alternatives with lower travel fees, etc) <sgp_> sure, it's already been moved, so that complicates things a bit <el00ruobuob_[m]> i silently approve moneromooo, looking into the Norwegian. <sgp_> did you hope that it would be discussed during a meeting first needmonero90? <needmonero90> I can't recall where the conversation is at, so I don't want to cover old ground <ErCiccione> I suggested the guy for Norwegian to open the CCS and make the post on reddit, but i also asked to write references for his work. So, i'm waiting for those before i express my vote on that <needmonero90> Just wanted to express in meeting that that particular proposal is a thorny issue <sgp_> all right. it was officially open for 4 days <needmonero90> Not long enough or with enough discussion imo <sgp_> thanks ErCiccione. fwiw I find the asking amount for that proposal pretty reasonable <ErCiccione> sgp_: I agree on that. <sgp_> Any other CCS comments before we move on? <needmonero90> none here <sgp_> 4. Workgroup report <sgp_> a. Daemon/CLI workgroup <sgp_> Code freeze. All the things happened. <needmonero90> I was confused when I saw a reddit thread about getting translations done *before* the freeze (maybe I misread) <sgp_> most notably the pay-by-hash for remote node use PR <needmonero90> which didnt make sense, I thought translations and stuff were ideal after the freeze <sgp_> needmonero90: my understanding is that there are essentially two freezes, so it depends on which one you call the "freeze." ErCiccione would be able to explain more though <needmonero90>https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/dlxyiu/monero_translators_we_need_you_to_make_one_final/ <monerobux> [REDDIT] Monero translators, we need you to make one final sprint! The code freeze is imminent. (self.Monero) | 112 points (99.0%) | 15 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2019-10-23 - 11:33:44 <needmonero90> ah, okay <ErCiccione> needmonero90: translations and stuff were ideal after the freeze <- They are, but for this release the GUI has been ready for some time, with no strings added <needmonero90> I thought code freeze meant the codebase was in a state where bugfixes and text data would be updated <needmonero90> or, thats the ideal place <ErCiccione> if there are no new strings we can start a bit earlier <needmonero90> im curious when the deadlines are for translation work <ErCiccione> the deadline was yesterday for CLI and today for GUI <xmrscott[m]> They've both come to pass <needmonero90> ah, so no translations in this release <needmonero90> no more* <sgp_> there were two weblate PRs I think <sgp_> This brings up to b. Localization workgroup anyway <sgp_> *us <ErCiccione> needmonero90: weblate is open, if people keep translating (and approving strings), we can open another PR. But that never happens <ErCiccione> well, it's open for the CLI. GUI is locked because i pushed the translations today and they have to be merged before i unlock it <sgp_> code freeze* *except for optimistic translations <ErCiccione> yeah <hyc> code freeze: no more code changes besides bugfixes <hyc> text changes, doc changes - probably still fair game <needmonero90> thats what I thought from past projects I've interacted with <sgp_> Can we take a step back and let us know how how the localization process happened this time ErCiccione? Or any other contributor <ErCiccione> the thing is.We never had a proper code freeze, so i was usually waiting until all the features were in and then ask translators to translate, <ErCiccione> now with an actual code freeze and release week after, we had to do things a bit earlier <ErCiccione> sgp_: sure <ErCiccione> Weblate was open since i announced it. There was few activity until my last calls for translators on reddit and twitter. I gave as a deadline the day of the beginning of the code freeze. merged those, translators can keep translate, <ErCiccione> and if there are enough strings translated i PR them to the repo (GUI or CLI) when it's possible to do so <sgp_> Do people like using weblate? <ErCiccione> As far as i can see, they seem to love it <ErCiccione> and i agree <ErCiccione> after the release we will use it for the website as well, i don't know if i already said that <xmrscott[m]> Very much so <sgp_> thanks <xmrscott[m]> Grammatical checks and similar strings os incredibly powerful, and you don't need to find your own locally run client for those features, all browser based <sgp_> I'm glad people like the system. It will help make translations more approachable to people who want to help <xmrscott[m]> We should add MyMonero app at some point too <ErCiccione> xmrscott: today i added some more QT specific checks, should be even more accurate now <xmrscott[m]> And as an aside to highlight how amazing it is, when I got the OpenWrt to start using it they described it as very addictive :) <ErCiccione> about the workflow: i'm roughly using the "continuous translations" system weblate suggests https://docs.weblate.org/en/weblate-2.8/admin/continuous.html <xmrscott[m]> My person favorite feature is the ability to get new emails when new strings are added <ErCiccione> yeah the notification system can be personalized a lot <sgp_> Any other localization comments? <el00ruobuob_[m]> i just saw that, that's great! <sgp_> c. GUI workgroup <sgp_> GUI code freeze is today. i2p support will come in a later point release unfortunately <sgp_> the complexity of the code took a toll on some contributors who need more time to make it happen <sgp_> related note: dsc has been teasing a new non-core GUI that he made on the side <sgp_> Any questions? I'll do my best to answer <rottensox> na. move on. <needmonero90> I believe there was some discussion on renaming the GUI? <needmonero90> idk where that went <needmonero90> some people thought "Monero GUI" was too clinical/technical, and wanted something "warmer" for new users (my words) <sgp_> needmonero90: I'm going to table that discussion for this meeting, but here is the relevant naming discussion that xmrscott[m] is championing: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/384 <thunderosa> I'll just chime in with wanting to banish anything "graphical interface" because the public has never seen a non-graphical interface. <needmonero90> wasn't trying to discuss it, just find the discussion point :) <thunderosa> It's inside reality vs outside reality. <sgp_> no problem, thanks for mentioning <sgp_> is sarang free to do a quick MRL update? <sgp_> d. Monero Research Lab <sgp_> Surae made significant progress on his matching code, with preliminary results now available for validation. Sarang did some hard moon math. Their meeting logs are on Github under meta. <sgp_> We also discussed subaddress association (and the related Janus attack). See this article and the accompanying Breaking Monero episode: https://getmonero.org/2019/10/18/subaddress-janus.html <sgp_> if there are no other comments or questions, we can move on to 5 <sgp_> 5. Monero 0.15 release name <sgp_> We need to pick a release name. To assist this, I’ve solicited feedback informally in this ranked-choice poll: https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/vote.pl?id=E_e228920d8a4d1cec&akey=ebaf2172a4c2dcc9 <sgp_> Results: <sgp_> 1. Carbon Callisto <sgp_> 2. Carbon Comet <sgp_> 3. Carbon Crab <sgp_> 4. Carbon Chamaeleon (or Chameleon) <sgp_> 5. Carbon Cosmos <sgp_> at this point we really need to pick a name, fast <needmonero90> I'll do a quick Telegram poll <thunderosa> Callisto is already the name of a crypto-project. Comet or Cosmos are both strong <needmonero90> speaking of projects with the same name, cosmos? <needmonero90> lol <sgp_> I shared this on Telegram too needmonero90, but other feedback is welcome. You can point them to the same link if you like. I can keep it up for the rest of the day <thunderosa> well, it's a little more universal I guess <darkaleph> callisto is a little on the nose as well <rottensox> Carbon Comet is a winner. <needmonero90> crab too :( <sgp_> I'm fine with all 5 of those choices honestly <needmonero90> though lots of elements have a C, so <sgp_> crab is probably my least favorite though <hyc> I dislike COmmet / Consetllation /whatever as too generic <thunderosa> yeah, crab = bad <needmonero90> D:< <needmonero90> how dare you <needmonero90> I'll fork off <hyc> the name should be a specific celestial body, not a general type of object <sgp_> lol sorry :p <needmonero90> crab nebula* <needmonero90> btw <sgp_> "MASSIVE Monero naming dispute" <hyc> So Callisto, Crab, Chamaeleon are the only proper nouns in this selection <thunderosa> Cassiopeia <el00ruobuob_[m]> Luna wasn't a specific celestial body hyc <hyc> yes it is Luna is a proper name for the earth's moon <sgp_> hyc: I interpret the naming convention a little more loosely, so I'm ok with any of these if they make sense <sgp_> in some ways, the simplicity is a strength <rottensox> luna is moon in Spanish <rottensox> yeah, i'll see myself out. <rottensox> Carbon Comet dammit. <sarang> Sorry I stepped away for a moment <needmonero90> \o/ <needmonero90> welcome back <sgp_> Carbon Callisto is both simple and unique enough that it's a reasonable compromise imo <sarang> Hit a bump in a soundness proof <sarang> I'm working on alternate approaches <needmonero90> sgp_: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/callisto-network/ <thunderosa> Yeah, and it's a bullshit coin too. <needmonero90> at rank 694 we'd trounce their SEO, so its nbd <sgp_> yeah I'm not too concerned about that :p <needmonero90> after looking at it, I think using Callisto isn't a problem, even though its another crypto project <needmonero90> my concerns are gone now <needmonero90>https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/cosmos/ <needmonero90> that tho <needmonero90> cosmos is out <sgp_> yeah, probably not the best idea <el00ruobuob_[m]> Carbon Crommelin Comet, abreviated in Carbon Comet ? <el00ruobuob_[m]>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27P/Crommelin <monerobux> [WIKIPEDIA] 27P/Crommelin | "Comet Crommelin, also known as Comet Pons-Coggia-Winnecke-Forbes, is a periodic comet with an orbital period of almost 28 years. It fits the classical definition of a Halley-type comet with (20 years < period < 200 years). It is named after the British astronomer Andrew C. D. Crommelin who calculated..." <sgp_> Does anyone hate Carbon Callisto? <needmonero90> the name doesnt conjure up strong feelings of space in my mind <hyc> I'm ok with Callisto <needmonero90> but I'm indifferent <sgp_> two voters who actually ranked everything in the poll rated it pretty low <thunderosa> I've got a bad association, but it's probably personal...I'm ok. <sgp_> but for most people, it was the top 1-4 choices <hyc> well, I recognize it as a moon of Jupiter so that works for me. but not much in love with it <needmonero90> if we go with Comet, I can see some retro cleaning product advertisement pushes by outreach <hyc> Chamaeleon is still my #1. multiple people pointed out its self-changing nature <needmonero90>https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3c/34/2b/3c342b122549bade835eaa0fcdc906f2.jpg <needmonero90> "with ring signatures" <thunderosa> yeah, chamaleon is a decent choice,...it has some personality <ErCiccione> i like Callisto <sgp_> The Chamaeleon / Chameleon similarities is a small weakness imo. Would be better if they were spelled the same way <needmonero90> I have a solution <sgp_> lol @ comet ad needmonero90 <needmonero90> lets call it Carbon Chamæleon <sgp_> lol <needmonero90> fixes all the issues :D <hyc> ok with me. alternate spellings, easier spelling, whatever <thunderosa> +1 Carbon Chamaleon (or however it's spelled) <sgp_> well, hopefully this helps Core in some way make a decision :) <needmonero90> lets table the bikeshedding, debruyne and I will figure out a reddit thread and stuff <darkaleph> chameleon is better then callisto but if you want heavenly bodies with a nod to rings then Cassini is cool <sgp_> we should move on to the final main topic <needmonero90> nah, move back sgp <needmonero90> sarang is here now <sgp_> sure, sarang do you have a quick summary? <needmonero90> maybe he's afk again :( <sgp_> lol <sgp_> he can take the stage if he comes back <sgp_> 6. Extracurricular activities <sgp_> Rehrar asked to reserve some time for extracurricular activities. Fun things that we can do to help foster the community. <sgp_> We tried a gaming session that was a good start, but it wasn't too fun for viewers <sgp_> We still have some room to test things out there I think <sgp_> I recently paid for a premium Kahoot subscription for r/cryptocurrency, so we can use that for fun quizzes if we want <sgp_> but ultimately, what activites would be useful to help bond the community together? what would you like to see the Monero community do? <rottensox> videogames, sports, even board games tournaments. put together by the community for the community and its users... <sgp_> board games are cool, but they're a little difficult to play online <rottensox> livestreaming community members playing a videogame won't do much. <hyc> this community isn't collected together because of gaming <sgp_> we probably need an announcer for the games <sgp_> hyc: of course not, but we're looking for other excuses to do things <rottensox> well, I precisely said board games to do them face to face... <rottensox> gaming can help others understand a truckload of things. through gaming you can achieve many things... <thunderosa> I don't really like it, but gambling type stuff has been popular. Maybe that could be made to be more interactive or team-based or something. <rottensox> there's a lot of room for us to grow. ruling out games be it videogames, board games, sports or anything you can think of is very short-sighted. <hyc> sure. maybe you can try putting together an educational game about monero, money, finance... <sgp_> cooperative minko lol <rottensox> a little guy created moneropoly... <sgp_> I wonder if that could somehow be done as a giveaway instead of gambling like it was done at Defcon <rottensox> a tournament of moneropoly? :-) <sgp_> but I wonder how much appeal that has <el00ruobuob_[m]> i'm in for a moneropolly tournament <rottensox> a set of cards whose arts are xmr-related? <thunderosa> monopoly actually kinda words online,..more than most other games at least <rottensox> see? there we go. interest spiking. <needmonero90> hyc: corporations aren't collected together because of golf, but its still a fantastic excuse to do something outside of a business context in a more casual situation <rottensox> thunderosa: you have not played moneropoly, have you? <needmonero90> for example. <thunderosa> no, I saw the post and thought it was a cool. I'm a Monopoly hound from way back. <sgp_> A Monero-themed cards against humanity could maybe work, but I think the websites that support custom cards are really dated <hyc> you could do moneropoly with live wallets <hyc> on testnet coins <needmonero90> finally my testnet hoard will be useful <sarang> Gah, i am back! <thunderosa> well, just a $1 buy-in to play,....the pot gets split somehow with the winner and the house <sarang> Multitasking is failing me <thunderosa> goes to the fund or something <sgp_> Can we somehow make "Game of Whales" work? Somehow related to Game of Thrones <needmonero90> more like unitasking <needmonero90> sarang whats the summary? <rottensox> outreach and rehrar can help these idea pan out? <needmonero90> sgp_: Lets discuss game stuff unlogged after-meeting :) <sarang> I have been hard at work on a new transaction protocol <rottensox> s/idea/ideas <monerobux> rottensox meant to say: outreach and rehrar can help these ideas pan out? <sgp_> sure needmonero90. good to get some ideas rolling while people are paying attention <sarang> A really cool multi input version works but the soundness proof does not <sarang> A single input version does have proofs that are working <sarang> But I would love to get the former proven properly <sarang> It's so close <sarang> I have a full writeup to share at Mondays meeting <needmonero90> anything happening on the other protocol fronts? <needmonero90> Halo, RCT3, lelantus? <needmonero90> or are those same as before <sarang> I want to backport some RCT3 stuff for efficiency comparisons <sarang> Nothing new on Omniring given its batch limitations <sarang> The RCT3 stuff was on hold due to this new protocol <sarang> So much math to do! <rottensox> sounds right up your alley though. <sgp_> Thanks sarang! <sgp_> Any final comments before we wrap up the meeting? <sgp_> Thanks for joining everyone <sgp_> (skipping 7. open ideas time) <el00ruobuob_[m]> thank you! <msvb-mob> Thanks sgp_, good meeting. <sgp_> 8. Confirm next meeting date/time <sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 9 November at 17:00 UTC. Note a possible regional time change! The next Coffee Chat will be on 16 November at 16:00 UTC, but we may change the format. Stay tuned for more details. <sgp_> 9. Conclusion <sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.