Logs

<rehrar> 0. Introduction
<rehrar> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting!
<rehrar> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/121
<rehrar> Monero Community meetings intend to be a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We plan to use this meeting and future meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<rehrar> Justin is at a Gophers football game today, so we can 'boo' him later.
<endogenic> boo sgp
<rehrar> 1. Greetings (who all's here?)
<cryptochangement> hey all!
<vP11> hey there lovely people
<ArticMine> Hi
<erciccione_[m]> hola
<needmultisig90> Hey
<xmrmatterbridge> <sgp> On mobile with a congested connection
<rehrar> boo
<serhack> hi
<rehrar> 2. Community highlights
<rehrar> For a great weekly summary, please read the Monero Observer: http://monero-observer.com/
<rehrar> btw, he opened up a FFS to get compensated for his great work, and we should push to get it moved to Funding Required
<rehrar> I can't link to it because the getmonero forum is down. I have nothing to do with the forum, so unfortunately I can't do anything about it. :/
<rehrar> Ledger has been making integration progress: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/72rh39/ledger_hardware_wallet_monero_integration_some/
<rehrar> Monero was featured on the IBTimes http://www.ibtimes.com/monero-rises-dark-web-why-cryptocurrency-users-want-more-privacy-2584390
<rehrar> The Monerujo android wallet made it to the Google Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.m2049r.xmrwallet
<rehrar> CoinHive took the world by storm. CoinHive is an in-browser JavaScript miner that was deployed on ThePirateBay and Showtime, among other sites https://coinhive.com/blog/status-report
<rehrar> Mike posted the latest episode of the Monero Monitor featuring John Tromp on Cuckoo Cycle and John McAfee on Monero https://moneromonitor.com/episodes/2017-09-26-Episode-014.html
<rehrar> Does anyone else have a highlight to share?
<vP11> i'd like to say a few words on a project that i've been working
<rehrar> g'head
<vP11> I'd like to announce a side-project called Monero Brasil. It's a community hub to introduce Monero to brazilians and other portuguese-speaking regions. I'll make a reddit post after the meeting with everything I accomplished so far and whatever else I have in the pipeline.
<vP11> the community hub consists of a website, facebook page, twitter and a whatsapp group (most used chat platform in Latin America).
<vP11> i wanted to announce this here before posting because I'd like firstly to thank you for being an amazing community that gave me inspiration to do it. secondly because you guys are pretty much experts on community management, so I'll be looking for your feedback later to improve the community hub even more.
<vP11> that will be all, thanks :)
<serhack> great vP11
<ErCiccione> awesome!
<rehrar> Cool deal. VP, if at any point other people want to start something similar for their countries, would you be willing to help out with the steps you took and things you did?
<vP11> yes. everything is done on wordpress and everything is free to be copied. i'm more than willing to help anyone who wants to do the same
<vP11> maybe even do some documentation on "how to start your own hub"
<rehrar> That'd be chill.
<rehrar> 3. FFS updates
<rehrar> We talked about many of these in detail last meeting, so I just want to say that we have more proof our community is generous. Several hundred thousand dollars have been donated since the last meeting! https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required
<rehrar> Maybe as a part of next meeting, we can go through the current Ideas and Open Tasks and give comments on them?
<msvb-lab> Good idea, as there is some action there in comments too.
<vP11> I agree. and for now the forum is offline so make sure to save the links and go there later
<rehrar> 4. Monero Q&A sessions
<rehrar> We are pleased to announce that several members of the community have stepped up to have monthly livestreamed Monero Q&A sessions. These will be outlined similarly to the Kovri OpenHours showcase https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0k5lTMFXBA
<rehrar> The first event will be on 7 October at 16:00 UTC, a week from today. Justin (sgp) will host the first meeting. Everyone is welcome to participate, and several community members will be there.
<rehrar> Each session could feature different people. Justin may be able to make it to one session but not another, for instance. The same goes for all the other contributors.
<rehrar> Again, these meetings are mostly informal. We hope that they can bring a level of accessibility, openness, and humanness to many Monero community members. Those who have questions can have them accurately answered live.
<rehrar> We would like to hear your thoughts on this initiative!
<vP11> That's very cool. Very nice a idea to get people to know more about Monero and also to feel "closer" to the developers and community members.
<ajs> interesting idea
<vP11> We can openly invite people from other communities or "pseudo-celebrities" to join and ask questions about Monero, etc, get their questions answered live.
<vP11> Cool idea really
<ArticMine> Very good idea
<endogenic> i'm gonna try to make it on the 7th, fwiw :)
<rehrar> endogenic has given it his seal of approval
<endogenic> whoa whoa whoa
<endogenic> let's not get ahead of ourselves
<endogenic> we'll see :)
<rehrar> Ok, any further discussion or ideas on this topic?
<needmultisig90> Im interested in participating as well
<needmultisig90> Other than that, none from me
<rehrar> ok
<rehrar> 5. Monero Support
<rehrar> There has been some discussion on this point, specifically after the community meeting last time.
<rehrar> About whether we are big enough for us to necessarily try sending support questions to Monero Support
<rehrar> Thoughts on this? Is there a desire to have less support questions on the official forum? Should we be pushing for Monero Support?
<rehrar> official forum = official reddit
<needmultisig90> I think in the first few weeks of the sub, we should have all new threads linked into monero
<needmultisig90> Gets exposure to the people who can respond, and would in theory mean no one needs to actively watch it
<cryptochangement> i for one think that people should be directed to monero support similarly to how they are directed to xmrtrader for speculation
<needmultisig90> I do too
<needmultisig90> Have for a while
<pero> well that was a critical tenet behind the idea
<vP11> i don't know, i think i like having some questions directly on the r/Monero because some "support questions" bring discussions about important subjects
<pero> but the main sub mods dont seem to agree
<vP11> but small, common questions should be redirected
<needmultisig90> Support questions are a lot of noise over signal
<pero> ^
<cryptochangement> vP11 there are some good questions but most of them are just "halp missing coins!!! am i screwed???" and all you have to do is tell them to wait for them to sync
<vP11> cryptochangement, I agree
<vP11> I guess the moderators need to judge case by case, if a support question is really just another of the same, then redirect it
<vP11> otherwise, let it live in r/Monero
<pero> if there isnt buy in from the mods in rmonero then it's just a waste of effort imo
<vP11> in the angle that people will keep going to r/Monero to ask questions because it's the biggest sub?
<needmultisig90> There is buy in from myself and debruyne, if the rule got passed at a community level
<xmrmatterbridge> <sgp> for /r/monero: "the GUI needs to be easier to use. here's why" for /r/Monerosupport "I need help connecting to a remote node"
<needmultisig90> I can pull up logs if needed
<dEBRUYNE> Buy in somewhere in the future that is, fwiw
<needmultisig90> Yes
<pero> pretty sure debruyne told me he isnt down
<needmultisig90> But we did discuss it
<rehrar> Can we try a little vote thingy? Just to get people's opinions?
<pero> sure we discussed it 10 times ;p
<rehrar> Yeah, let's do that.
<rehrar> I will say three different statements about the Monero Support, when you agree with a statement
<rehrar> raise your hand o/
<rehrar> One will be positive, one will be negative, and one will be 'at a later time'
<dEBRUYNE> <pero> pretty sure debruyne told me he isnt down <= To clarify. I said i'd be down for it somewhere in the future, when r/monero is bigger
<rehrar> 1. I think we should move forward with the Support initiative now (move most support questions to /r/monerosupport)
<needmultisig90> half o/
<xmrmatterbridge> <sgp> o/
<vP11> o> (half)
<cryptochangement> o/
<rehrar> 2. I don't think Monero Support is necessary
<ErCiccione> i'll be alone but o/
<rehrar> 3. I am in favor of /r/monerosupport, but not at this present time
<msvb-lab> o/
<needmultisig90> o>
<endogenic> uh oh, message sychronization issues. how will we tally the votes
<vP11> o>
<rehrar> I'll assign each vote randomly to a different statement
<endogenic> LOL
<needmultisig90> Ffff
<vP11> sounds like a good idea
<needmultisig90> Wcgw
<rehrar> It's obviously not an official vote :P It's just to get a rough idea.
<rehrar> Ok, we'll table that for now. For the time being, we are getting a few questions here and there
<rehrar> if you have the time and/or desire, please pop by and answer some that come up
<rehrar> moving on: 6. Monero meetups
<needmultisig90> Wait
<needmultisig90> Addendum
<rehrar> Monero meetups are stops
<rehrar> g'head nm90
<needmultisig90> Can we get a relay bot for new threads in /r/monerosupport into monero?
<needmultisig90> I think that would dramatically increase response time and engagement
<needmultisig90> Whether it becomes de facto the support sub yet
<cryptochangement> ^good idea
<needmultisig90> (More precisely, if I set one up, would anyone be opposed)
<cryptochangement> im not gonna stop you :p
<vP11> I think this is a good idea tbh
<rehrar> ok then
<needmultisig90> I hear no dissent, so ill just do it then
<rehrar> :D Meetups
<rehrar> There's an increasing chance every day that there's a Monero community near you.
<rehrar> Justin's group Crypto@UMN is hosting a Monero meetup on 20 October in Minneapolis. This event is open to students and the wider community. Free food and drinks will be provided. More details here: https://gopherlink.umn.edu/event/1581653
<rehrar> There were also meetups in Berlin and Silicon Valley, but I don't have deets
<rehrar> binaryFate is looking for an organizer to take over the Monero London responsibilities.
<needmultisig90> 1 sec
<needmultisig90> https://www.meetup.com/San-Mateo-Cryptocurrency-Meetup/
<needmultisig90> Meetup is on the 1st, and every 2 weeks (sundays) after
<needmultisig90> Ongoing
<needmultisig90> /stuff
<rehrar> Cool. I can add that to the events page on the webste
<rehrar> Any other meetups, either reporting on one that happened or announcing one in the future?
<ArticMine> There are now monthly meetups in Toronto
<ArticMine> https://www.meetup.com/Toronto-Monero-Meetup/
<binaryFate> For London, more precisely a team of organizers. I know too well how a single person can be a bottleneck. I'm discussing with some folks already, looks cool
<msvb-lab> Not sure if it qualifies as a meetup (whatever that is) but RIAT in Vienna is organizing one or more meetings in Vienna. A date hasn't been set but it will be early or mid December.
<rehrar> Awesome stuff.
<msvb-lab> The meetings will welcome all Monero community members and at least one topic on the agenda will be planning a larger Monero presence at the 34C3 in December.
<binaryFate> last year we were 3 :)
<rehrar> I'd like to announce and idea that ajs and I have been popping back and forth between us, for comment
<rehrar> We were thinking of hosting a Privacy conference somewhere in the Southwest America (like Dallas).
<rehrar> It's a big dream, and would require a lot of work, but we can see about raising some funds through FFS for space, and inviting different people in the field to join.
<ArticMine> So Monero and privacy?
<rehrar> Privacy Conference, powered by Monero.
<rehrar> But yeah, basically
<rehrar> Oh, and we're looking for sometime summer next year.
<vP11> interesting. privacy is a top that is getting hotter and hotter. i might see why people would go into a conference with a focus on privacy and it would be cool to have monero on it.
<vP11> i support this idea.
<rehrar> I know it's a big project, and in some ways it trying to shoot for the moon, but hey, if we don't dream (and work to accomplish those dreams obviously), then we never get anywhere
<ArticMine> It is doable
<msvb-lab> Might be worth doing some basic 'how to protect your privacy' (EFF like workshop) or 'How does Tor work' at the privacy conference.
<rehrar> exactly msvb-lab
<msvb-lab> rehrar: Since it will be easy to cover Monero centric topics, but there won't be buy in from EFF and Tor probably.
<rehrar> There can be some things for privacy noobs and veterans alike
<rehrar> We can always invite. Never hurts to ask. Worst we get is a 'no', and we have someone else show the basics.
<rehrar> Best we get is a 'yes' and we get more big names.
<rehrar> shrug just an idea :)
<msvb-lab> That's right, John McAffee should be invited too.
<ArticMine> ... and the FSF
<flyasaphoenix[m]> Offer discount for tix purchased with Monero :p
<rehrar> Doing something like this would also set Monero apart further from other coins (not that we already aren't). It puts Monero as an advocate for privacy on a larger scale.
<msvb-lab> Invite Richard Stallman.
<rehrar> Anyways, topic in the works. To be continued. Moving on.
<ajs> was thinking of sending out a call for papers on privacy issues from different areas of study.. law, social, political, economic, cryptography and maybe publish a peer reviewed journal
<rehrar> That'd be cool.
<rehrar> 7. Taiga projects f
<rehrar> oops, just Taiga projects
<rehrar> Last meeting, we announced Taiga: https://taiga.getmonero.org
<rehrar> Taiga is an open-source organizational tool that allows people to collaborate on projects. It's been running for a bit now, but I'm waiting for a couple more optimizations to be made between me and pigeons with the software before making fanfare about it.
<rehrar> But it's ready for use now.
<rehrar> Several people have added projects to Taiga. I encourage you to check them out and add your own. We hope to integrate Taiga with Mattermost, and to make Taiga an effective tool for community members to get projects done. In Taiga, there is also a basic outline for the Mattermost migration project.
<rehrar> 8. Open ideas time
<rehrar> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<msvb-lab> Taiga is quite excellent. Does anybody know about a mobile application that lets you browse, monitor, or get notifications from projects?
<xmrmatterbridge> <sgp> I like the conference idea, and it's probably easiest to host at a university. Work with a student group there
<needmultisig90> I would like to open discussion on the current inclusion of /r/aeon on the /r/monero sidebar. /u/bigreddmachine has brought up that we show preference towards it and not other cryptonote projects, and I think we should come to a clear consensus on whether it should be included or not.
<rehrar> msvb-lab they have an app, but it's very limited unless you pay (ironically)
<needmultisig90> Im personally biased towards inclusion for financial reasons, and will refrain from participating
<needmultisig90> I dont believe my opinion is impartial here.
<rehrar> but we are working on integrating with mattermost so that when there is an update to the project, it will make a post in MatterMost about it (in your chosen channel)
<rehrar> regarding Aeon, I think the biggest question is, do the values and ideals of the coin match with that of Monero?
<rehrar> if the answer is no, then it should be removed. Doesn't matter who runs it, or how many Monero community members are also a part of it.
<msvb-lab> What's the history that led to Aeon's preferred status?
<ErCiccione> rehrar i don't think that's the right question to make since we have /r/BTC
<xeagu> I posted a thread earlier that is relevant to the discussion of /r/aeon being on the sidebar. Tldr, I laid out a set of principles that I believe align with the Monero Community. Maybe I go a little too far by including Bitcoin and Litecoin - what do you think?
<xeagu> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/73g7aq/monero_community/
<bigreddmachine> @needmultisig90 it's not even that Aeon is favored over other cryptonote coins, it's that it is favored over other coins, period. It's not part of the Monero Project, and therefore should be treated the exact same way as everything else. Bitcoin makes the sidebar because it is the first, the biggest, and there's near unanimous agreement that one of the various forms of Bitcoin is King.
<rehrar> ErCiccione I don't necessarily agree with that either ;)
<cryptochangement> msvb-lab: it is a lot older than most other monero/cryptonote clones, it isnt bytecoin (scammy pre-mine) and it is it maintained by smooth
<rehrar> msvb-lab: it's run by Core Team member smooth, and a big overlap of community
<bigreddmachine> But everything else - including Aeon - should be treated the same. If aeon makes the cut, I can think of a dozen other coins more deserving of making the cut.
<rehrar> ^
<rehrar> It would be a different matter if Aeon was under the Monero Project umbrella, but it's not
<xmrmatterbridge> <sgp> This also extends to the Monero StackExchange
<xeagu> I make the claim that we decide what coins can be added to the sidebar based on their community and not necessarily technical similarities
<ErCiccione> I think the most important thing now is decide the criterias of that sidebar. Make no sense to me refuse /r/aeon but leave /r/BTC
<ArticMine> There has to be some kind of objective criteria
<ajs> could we add Verge? ;)
<needmultisig90> Pls
<bigreddmachine> StackExchange had a discussion and said that cryptonote questions that are also relevant to Monero are on topic. That community made that decision.
<rehrar> :D ajs
<needmultisig90> No
<cryptochangement> we need to get a cut of that "payed shill fund" first
<rehrar> I agree with ArticMine, the first thing that needs to be done is setting an objective criteria
<rehrar> then we simply compare each link on the sidebar with the criteria, if it doesn't match, it goes
<bigreddmachine> The objective criteria is that it's all off topic. All other coins. An exception can be made for Bitcoin because without bitcoin we're not here, and also because Bitcoin isn't a scam. No other coins fit both criteria.
<xeagu> What if the objective criteria was based on the ideological principles their community shares?
<bigreddmachine> Xeagu, communities only share ideologies as long as they are small. As a community gets bigger, it diversifies. That's already evident in this community
<rehrar> well, seeing as how this is an open source community, I submit that if someone has a strong opinion about this they write up their own objective criteria and submit it to the meta repo for discussion
<rehrar> the different sets can be compared and one can be adopted
<rehrar> I'll probably throw together a draft myself
<cryptochangement> bigreddmachine: then r/btc should probably be removed since those guys are pretty much all about BCH now (which is fine, but its not the "original bitcoin")
<rehrar> they would say differently :P
<needmultisig90> Xmrtrader independently voted to allow aeon discussion, but I could follow the result out of this
<ErCiccione> agree with rehrar.a 3d in meta is the best way
<needmultisig90> Whatever gets applied to /r/monero should be uniform
<rehrar> I am in favor of removing bitcoin and btc fwiw
<xeagu> I am in favor of keeping /r/bitcoin and /r/aeon and also adding /r/litecoin
<rehrar> I have no interest in them, and removing any and all dependency from them should be a goal, but that's just my opinion
<rehrar> ok well, good discussion everyone, we're running short on time
<rehrar> so we'll move on
<rehrar> 9. Confirm next meeting date/time
<bigreddmachine> Rehrar! Aeon has always been off topic in r/Monero, and then unilaterally was made on topic by a r/Monero mod changing the sidebar. If you want to hold a vote, feel free to figure out how to do that secretly and fairly. But unless there's massive consensus among all r/Monero then it's off topic.
<cryptochangement> i would say that r/Bitcoin is still relevent since its what most people all now about and bitcoin itself is still pretty important... but i dont want to get into a politcal war that will spawn Monero Cash
<rehrar> The next meeting will two weeks from today on 30 September at 17:00 UTC. It will be the Saturday before the dev meetings. This meeting time seems to work out for most people.
<rehrar> 10. Conclusion
<rehrar> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
<rehrar> Gather your things, close your briefcases, and start the after-meeting office chatter. We're done.
<vP11> nice one :) thank you all
<vP11> hey guys, I gotta go. thank you all for the meeting and make sure to give me your feedback here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/73gbqr/monero_brasil_news_community_hub/
<needmultisig90> Good meeting
<vP11> i'll be checking it tomorrow or later tonight :) have a nice weekend!
<cryptochangement> good meeting all
<rehrar> bigredmachine, when did I say we should vote?
<bigreddmachine> Rehrar, I don't think you did. You said something about writing up proposals... So I started replying to you, then tagged on something to someone else that mentioned voting as a follow up to you.
<bigreddmachine> Probably could have separated those thoughts
<rehrar> ah, ok. Well the end result was very confusing for me. :P
<bigreddmachine> @needmultisig90 Thanks for airing out mod concerns in public. That's not exactly cool. But now that I know there's no privacy to be expected from messaging the mods, I'll rethink how I express any concerns.
<needmultisig90> I didnt realize this was a point of contention
<needmultisig90> I thought the discussion of whether aeon belonged on the sidebar was extremely on topic
<needmultisig90> Perhaps with censored names, I made a mistake.
<pero> -_-
<bigreddmachine> But there was no need to tie my name to it is all
<needmultisig90> That was a mistake, I didnt mean to step on any toes. Ill censor myself in the future.
<bigreddmachine> Especially since no one ever replied to my concern to me, and now I'm being called out in public for bringing it up
<needmultisig90> I thought you brought up a good point, and I was concerned no one responded
<needmultisig90> But you are correct, I shouldnt have singled you out.
<bigreddmachine> I appreciate your interest and concern, just please be more careful with naming people.
<bigreddmachine> This issue isn't really a big deal
<bigreddmachine> But the next one might be, never know
<parasew[m]> hi all, sorry i could join in only now, was travelling before (msvb-lab )
<needmultisig90> You're right, fwiw. Im conflicted on the issue and didnt respond due to personal bias
<parasew[m]> we have been in contact with the CCC for the 34c3, i will post results as soon as there are news; we are trying a bigger setup together with bitcoin and riat assembly.
<parasew[m]> in december we will have a large monero meetup in vienna, also we are happy to invite all of you, we also organised flats for people to stay in (will post on reddit and also maybe discuss in the coming community meeting)
<ErCiccione> parasew[m]: hey, are you still willing to test pootle for the localization group? we really need to set it up asap
<parasew[m]> ErCiccione: i already set up the pootle,
<parasew[m]> ErCiccione: did not completely test it yet, thoug.
<parasew[m]> ErCiccione: will be working on it tomorrow morning; are you avail tomorrow? should i send you login details to vps?
<ErCiccione> parasew: ok great, it's a bit a mess for me in this days since i'm moving to another country, but i'll try to find some time tomorrow. Yes, would be great to give it a look thanks
<parasew[m]> ErCiccione: ok, the basic setup is quite straight forward, config takes some time but i will see how far i come and send you details? (how, pm?)
<parasew[m]> ErCiccione: detail configure i mean.
<ErCiccione> ok, but don't worry too much about details, we need to know if it's 100% compatible with all our needings. if it is we can think about the configuration later
<ErCiccione> also if everything is going fine i don't need to take a look now, we can do everything when is configuration time :)
<ErCiccione> also, i gave the credential of 1 vps of mine to xmrscott, who wanted to give Weblate another shot. if that failed we can just focus on pootle for good
<parasew[m]> ok cool, will pm you tomorrow
<ErCiccione> great, thanks!

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