Logs

<anonimal> 1. Greetings
<anonimal> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
<anonimal> 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status
<anonimal> 4. Alpha release discussion
<anonimal> 5. Public relations discussion
<anonimal> 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
<anonimal> 7. Any additional meeting items
<anonimal> 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
<anonimal> Hi
<oneiric_> Hi
<rehrar> Heyo
<rehrar> #kovrifam
<rehrar> stolen from Verge
<anonimal> I don't think fluffypony has been to a kovri meeting since at least 2016.
<_Slack> <sean> Hey
<anonimal> He name-drops kovri/kovri-related in interviews all the time and shows up to monero meetings.
<anonimal> Hi sean
<rehrar> like the Queen of England
<rehrar> shall I ping him?
<_Slack> <sean> Hey anonimal.
<anonimal> rehrar: you already did, during the prep
<rehrar> he's not in the room, and I guess he doesn't have any other IRC bridges
<anonimal> Anyone else here? Big channel, lots of lurkers
<anonimal> NSA bots, how's it going?
<oneiric_> lol +badbot
<anonimal> Hi iDunk
<iDunk> o/
<rottensalty07> I'm here, but I'm not a three-lettered botnet.
<anonimal> Damn
<anonimal> They could at least speak up more
<anonimal> We know you're there
<anonimal> Some poor sap sitting behind a monitor sifting through regexps
<anonimal> Oh well
<anonimal> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
<anonimal> If you look at the old logs, I used to prepare very detailed records for item 2.
<rottensalty07> Lol.
<anonimal> I then realized that A) most people didn't care B) the people who did care already knew what I was going to say.
<anonimal> So, I stopped preparing for item 2 :)
<anonimal> Here's a recent item I can easily grab:
<anonimal> https://twitter.com/getkovri/status/1004568146139865089
<anonimal> Which links to https://t.co/7fDhUBt75d
<anonimal> Oops
<anonimal> http://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90300/oneiric-june-august-part-time-kovri-junior-developer
<rottensalty07> Those t.co shady links. Shame.
<anonimal> The tco link points to the forum link
<rottensalty07> I'm reading through.
<anonimal> So that needs more input and should be moved to funding.
<anonimal> Alex058 responded with thumbs up
<anonimal> I'll go ahead and retweet the getkovri tweet
<oneiric_> Much appreciation anonimal and Alex058 :)
<rottensalty07> Retweeted by wheel too.
<anonimal> No problem
<rehrar> I support oneiric_, but I'm biased since he is bae
<rottensalty07> oneiric_: I'm happy to see others coming out to help rehrar and anonimal labor. We are nothing but a community.
<rottensalty07> rehrar: No homo.
<rehrar> all the homo
<oneiric_> lol rehrar
<anonimal> oneiric_ is British Aerospace?
<oneiric_> ?
<anonimal> "bae" ;)
<oneiric_> lol
<anonimal> Anyway, aside from that, lots has happened between now and the previous meeting. Lots of development.
<anonimal> Anything else on point 2.?
<rehrar> not sure if I should report here
<rehrar> or in 3.
<rehrar> they kinda bleed together
<anonimal> 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status
<anonimal> Go
<rehrar> I been working
<rehrar> end
<rehrar> no but really
<rehrar> so my last payout was delayed because kovri died down for about a month or two. So rather than try to just do busywork that wouldn't help anyone, I decided to delay my work and payment until we got the band back together so we can make sure we're all working toward a common goal
<anonimal> A month or two?! Umm, no.
<rehrar> but I was doing some build work with oneiric, particularly documenting
<anonimal> When was this?
<rehrar> *a month
<anonimal> Two weeks is a month now?
<rehrar> intermittent people in #kovri from mid April to near end of May?
<anonimal> What does #kovri have to do with your FFS?
<rehrar> ummm...I'm just explaining why I felt it would be better to hold up on the work :/
<anonimal> If I can't make it for ~2 weeks, that's when other people are needed most; not the other way around.
<anonimal> Well, whatever your rationale, I don't think anyone else cares if you weren't working on your FFS so, you probably won't hear any other complaints.
<rehrar> I have been working on my FFS. In fact it should be done today or tomorrow.
<anonimal> Sucks for me though because I get the brunt of it.
<anonimal> You just said you delayed your work, and now you're telling me you've been working...
<anonimal> Which one is it?
<rehrar> .........
<rehrar> it hasn't been delayed the entire time anonimal
<rottensalty07_> anonimal: I believe you got twisted there...
<rottensalty07_> He didn't work on the main thing for few days, but was working documenting under the table...
<rehrar> I was working on it for a couple weeks, then took a break while things died down, and then resumed recently when things picked back up
<anonimal> If your last payout was 2 months ago, and you said you delayed your work for 2 months, that equals 0 work if I understand correctly that 2 - 2 = 0
<anonimal> Ok
<rehrar> yes, but as you corrected, it wasn't two months, and my "month or two" comment wasn't correct as you said
<anonimal> I can't account for under the table work.
<rehrar> excuse me for speaking flippantly
<rehrar> I can PR the documentation work that I've done, but you had said that you weren't liking the whole "DO NOT MERGE" culture that had happened last time I did a PR to prove work
<anonimal> So what's been done.
<rehrar> this is what I have been trying to explain :P
<anonimal> DO NOT MERGE equals not complete so why be paid for something that hasn't been completed.
<anonimal> WIP is one thing, but you're off the hook after this FFS.
<anonimal> So, is it done?
<anonimal> You set the deadlines of Q1, not me. I just want to see where we are.
<rehrar> Documenation with oneiric_, which is in progress, sent a PR with the recent multilingual changes that were on the getmonero.og site, lots and lots of logo work, fielding a few dev people that contacted out of interest, serhack collab for Mastering Monero, kovri defcon work
<rehrar> documentation is not done, but fairly far along. oneiric_ can attest that we spent quite some time working through various OS's, as not all the instrutions worked 100% and there was a large amount of trouble shooting
<rehrar> *instructions
<oneiric_> That's true, we worked on Debian builds, and a couple of the build options.
<anonimal> Ok
<rehrar> the OS specific documentation also requires a custom HTML/CSS scheme for the Get Started page, which I have experimented with and not found a solution for
<anonimal> I don't think all of this is needed though.
<oneiric_> I was a bit unsure of a couple flags, and why the build was failing without them.
<anonimal> We have a table in the readme
<anonimal> What's the goal?
<rehrar> one of the things we discussed was the rewrite the kovri docs
<rehrar> and to do it in a more user friendly wa
<rehrar> *way
<rehrar> I do indeed have a table as well, sitting in my branch of kovri docs
<rehrar> I can PR it right this second for proof
<anonimal> I ended up having to do the docs myself. https://github.com/monero-project/kovri-docs/pull/48
<anonimal> It's June. This kind of stuff needed to be done Q1.
<anonimal> The user-guide could use improving though.
<anonimal> Anyway, whatever. What's done is done.
<rehrar> the new multilingual scheme also requires different stuff for the way the site is handled
<rehrar> PR sent
<anonimal> Ok
<rehrar> the Kovri site is quite different from the Monero site, in that it relies on the pulled docs, which has pros and cons. Simplifies some things and complicates others.
<anonimal> Yes, but this doesn't change that I'm having to do things myself; things you said you would do.
<anonimal> Also, what have you done with r/kovri?
<anonimal> AFAICT nothing for this FFS.
<anonimal> In fact, someone else had to come and moderate because of spam.
<anonimal> Have you done any r/kovri work that I'm unaware of?
<rehrar> no
<anonimal> "/r/Kovri design moderation and upkeep" <-- https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/89677/rehrar-s-2018-q1-kovri-proposal
<anonimal> Ok
<anonimal> Anything else for point 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status ?
<oneiric_> We already talked about mine, nothing else from me
<anonimal> 4. Alpha release discussion
<anonimal> The date is by defcon.
<anonimal> I have no clue where pigeons is.
<anonimal> I can't develop on BSD nor windows. These meta issue tickets are piling up.
<anonimal> The alpha will be a sum result of what the community can handle.
<anonimal> s/I can't develop on BSD nor windows/I can't develop on BSD nor windows because of https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/178 and https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/238
<rehrar> I'll ping pigeons right now
<anonimal> These shouldn't be issues. This is why we need to move on https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/237
<anonimal> I'm already donating my time. If I wasn't donating that, then I'd be donating my money.
<rehrar> hmmm...ok. Do you think it's worthwhile to have us kovri people set up some stuff and maintain them?
<anonimal> That's the point of #237, or at least one of the points.
<anonimal> We're running out of time, anything else on 4. Alpha release discussion?
<rehrar> right, but we can get an action item on that in that we can have someone do it specifically for Kovri. Other workgroups can follow suit as they want.
<anonimal> Moving the issue from Monero Project Meta to Monero Project Taiga defeats the purpose of decentralization.
<anonimal> But no one is stopping you from doing that.
<rehrar> I can set up a Kovri taiga :)
<rehrar> and we can have our various Kovri related tasks on there instead of on the getmonero one
<anonimal> That won't work, because you're paid by Ric do work for Monero Project.
<anonimal> Me or someone else would need to host it.
<anonimal> But you can do whatever you want.
<anonimal> 10 minutes left, we need to move on.
<anonimal> 5. Public relations discussion
<anonimal> _4matter is doing some great work behind the scenes in this area.
<anonimal> He couldn't make the meeting but I'm assuming he'll make the next one.
<anonimal> I like his ideas/approach. He can speak more when he returns.
<anonimal> I advised him that he shouldn't repeat the work that rehrar's done. rehrar did a ton of work in the outreach area and, no fault of his own, it had mixed results.
<rehrar> it was an eye opening experience :D
<anonimal> I'll add an item to the next meeting regarding public relations.
<anonimal> rehrar got to learn that developers are like violinists:
<anonimal> they all think they're hot shit or that they are soloist material - but many are not :)
<anonimal> s/violinists/young classical violinists/
<anonimal> Anyway, inside classical humor.
<anonimal> I watched rehrar's jitsi meeting recently. I think you have a penchant for sales.
<anonimal> If you haven't successfully done that, I wouldn't be surprised if you do more of that.
<rehrar> sales? Like selling stuff?
<rehrar> Selling people on stuff, I guess.
<anonimal> Yeah, and PR.
<rehrar> shrug not really one of my interests, but thanks.
<rehrar> :)
<ErCiccione> sorry, just finished to read the logs, i'm a bit late to the party. anything you guys want to tell me about translating getkovri?
<anonimal> Well it's come in handy.
<anonimal> Hi ErCiccione
<rehrar> PR sent ErCiccione with the newest updates similar to getmonero.org
<ErCiccione> hello :)
<rehrar> but since getkovri is set up differently, there is still a substantial amount that is not done via tags
<rehrar> handled via kovri-docs
<ErCiccione> seen it, tomorrow i will give it a better look and i will change the instructions on taiga if needed
<rehrar> I'm updating the README for the site after this meeting
<ErCiccione> ok, perfect will read the workflow changes from there
<anonimal> Thanks for all the work you've done too, ErCiccione.
<_4matter> anonimal: saw the ping above. On mobile and out of town for a wedding, but I will read through the above.
<_4matter> :)
<anonimal> _4matter: ok, I said that you weren't around and other things. No rush.
<anonimal> ErCiccione: anything else?
<rehrar> question: should we have a Kovri defcon meeting on the weekday so it's easier to attend? Separate from the overall defcon meeting on Saturdays?
<ErCiccione> anonimal: happy to help. no, not from me. Will try to find some more contributors for translations in future. didn't have much luck with that last reddit post
<anonimal> Yes, or move the defcon meetings to a later time on Saturdays.
<rehrar> I can request it. What time is good?
<rehrar> This time?
<anonimal> Good luck ErCiccione, you'll find them.
<ErCiccione> :)
<anonimal> I know where michael is geographically so I understand 15:00 UTC. It's really up to him since he's heading the show.
<rehrar> alright, I'll send him a message.
<anonimal> But if the community wants me involved, then they'll have to budge just a little.
<anonimal> If not, then they'll be leaving me out and a big chunk of the project.
<anonimal> Which has been the case.
<rehrar> Honestly, Kovri is one of the bigger things that should be at Defcon, at least imo.
<anonimal> Even though I repeatedly asked if the community meetings could be moved slightly.
<anonimal> For months. And months.
<anonimal> But here we are.
<rehrar> And I'll fight to make sure you and Kovri are fairly represented there.
<rehrar> For community meetings, would an hour or two later be better?
<rehrar> my client refuses to respond
<anonimal> 17:00 UTC if possible, but that conflicts with the community meetings.
<anonimal> sgp has always been pretty staunch about that timeslot.
<rehrar> I'll tweak a few nipples and see what I can't get done
<anonimal> ouch
<rehrar> sometimes you gotta pull out the big guns
<anonimal> tweezers
<anonimal> If they won't budge, whatever we did worked last time rehrar
<anonimal> Was it a Tuesday at 20:00 or around there
<anonimal> Yeah, that.
<rehrar> after the meeting, we can discuss your meta issues for decentralization. I've got a few ideas (that don't involve me or Core Team).
<anonimal> Defcon is a lot of work, that's for sure.
<rehrar> or whenever you have the time
<rehrar> dude, what makes defcon a bigger headache is that BCOS won't communicate with us :(
<anonimal> I don't have any time for anything. I don't even have time to get to "6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A"
<anonimal> Ideas are welcome though, of course.
<rehrar> ok. I'll put it in the Issue
<anonimal> What's the deal with BCOS?
<rehrar> they...aren't responding to emails in a timely manner (or at all)
<_Slack> <sean> background Seinfeld music
<anonimal> Or you can paste here if you want and I'll respond
<anonimal> lol sean
<anonimal> "So what's the deal with BCOS?!"
<rehrar> Alright, i will be fairly unavailable starting tomorrow and through the 14th
<anonimal> "Can the NOT afford to communicate with Monero?!"
<rehrar> fyi for everyone here :)
<rehrar> will respond to Wire or Signal if need be, but limited IRC
<anonimal> Sorry sean, I can't top your line with anything funnier.
<_Slack> <sean> BCOS.
<_Slack> Command sent from Slack by sean:
<_Slack> ...that's the joke.
<anonimal> Ok. Thanks for the headsup rehrar.
<rehrar> it's crazy that nobody's ever heard of them before this
<anonimal> lol sean
<rehrar> but they got such a prominent spot at Defcon
<rehrar> shrug oh well
<anonimal> rehrar: and will anyone ever hear about them after defcon...
<rehrar> evidently they were at last defcon in a village or something
<rehrar> disappeared for a y ear
<rehrar> then came back for the next one :D
<_Slack> <sean> They did post that Coinbase is a sponsor, so I'm wondering why they're so damn disorganized.
<anonimal> I don't know.
<rehrar> anyways
<oneiric_> For 6, I spent most of late-April to May working on multiple subscriptions. Few unit tests left, break it up into smaller chunks for review, and it should be ready.
<anonimal> Ok, anything else before we move on? We're in overdrive.
<anonimal> Thank you oneiric_, keeping us on track.
<anonimal> 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
<anonimal> Ok
<anonimal> Oh, I didn't mention, for this and for the FFS check-in, I'll be submitting the next milestone too.
<rehrar> woohoo!
<rehrar> you pushing the limits, man
<anonimal> lol, I'm glad someone is excited, haha
<anonimal> Well at close to 180 hours, yes, I'll be submitting.
<rehrar> for real, the community doesn't appreciate the stupid amounts of work you put in to this project
<anonimal> I'm tired of the free handouts and I also just want this FFS done as I'm sure everyone else wants too.
<anonimal> Thanks rehrar.
<anonimal> Yes, they don't.
<anonimal> And most people also think fluffypony is the CEO and lead developer of Monero.
<anonimal> As seen in every recent interview.
<rehrar> isn't that the most bizarre thing?
<anonimal> Or post somewhere.
<rehrar> I see a lot of people post that he started monero too
<anonimal> I think he's given up on correcting them.
<anonimal> Anyway, so I'm the CEO and lead developer of Monero too.
<rehrar> Creator, lead dev, and CEO. Must be nice. :P
<anonimal> And I have several lambos and boats.
<anonimal> Hey, this fantasy land is pretty sweet.
<rehrar> let me in :(
<oneiric_> Any jets flown by unicorns?
<anonimal> 7. Any additional meeting items
<anonimal> rehrar: it's simple: just say it and it appears.
<anonimal> oneiric_: yes. As many as you want.
<rehrar> No other items from me.
<anonimal> Nothing from me but I'm on autopilot right now anyway. If I missed something, please yell.
<anonimal> Shall we schedule a kovri defcon meeting and if the community channel agrees to be flexible, we just cancel the kovri defcon meeting, rehrar?
<oneiric_> Same, anything else I have can be discussed outside meeting, or wait until the next one.
<rehrar> that sounds like a sane thing to do
<rehrar> pinging sgp_[m] now
<anonimal> I'll open the github issue.
<anonimal> 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
<rehrar> Google calendar knows all
<anonimal> July 5th?
<anonimal> Or sooner?
<anonimal> I can't do 21st but can do 14th and 28th.
<anonimal> rehrar probably can't do the 14th
<rehrar> can't do 14th as stated, but can do 28th
<rehrar> ^ mind reader
<anonimal> oneiric_: 28th?
<oneiric_> 28th works for me too
<sgp_[m]> anonimal I must have missed your repeated desire to move the commubity meetings. I didn't realize they conflicted with your schedule, especially since there was a significant period without kovri meetings. I'm open to working out a schedule that works for everyone
<anonimal> sgp_[m]: this goes back to the beginning of the year if not later
<anonimal> Whenever you started the community channel.
<anonimal> It's all on github and/or irc logs.
<anonimal> I just gave up complaining.
<anonimal> rehrar: oneiric_ I'll open a new issue for the next kovri meeting
<rehrar> ok, great
<anonimal> I do look forward to resolving the Meeting Solutions issue though.
<oneiric_> right on
<anonimal> One simple solution is a meeting bot which uploads logs to a website automatically.
<anonimal> This is old-school, done-to-death solution and works well.
<anonimal> And when you want to know the next meeting: !meeting
<rehrar> that's pretty neat
<anonimal> supybot did/does this, as did others
<anonimal> I have no idea who's doing what anymore
<anonimal> I haven't been to a Tor meeting in ages but they had their bot the last I saw.
<anonimal> Anyway, simple solution; but doesn't satisfy the modern age very well afaict
<rehrar> ICO a solution
<anonimal> That's always the solution
<rehrar> it's never not the solution
<anonimal> "Honey can you grab me milk from the store?" "Sure, startup an ICO."
<anonimal> Alright, meeting done?
<rehrar> Ye
<rehrar> bai everyone
<rehrar> kisses for all
<anonimal> Thanks everyone

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