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158 lines
11 KiB
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158 lines
11 KiB
Markdown
---
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layout: post
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title: Logs for the Monero Research Lab Meeting Held on 2019-05-14
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summary: Surae work, Sarang work, and miscellaneous
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tags: [community, crypto, research]
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author: el00ruobuob / sarang
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---
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# Logs
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**\<sarang>** Agenda: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/344
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**\<sarang>** Logs of this meeting will be posted there
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**\<sarang>** GREETINGS
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**\<suraeNoether>** howdy!
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**\<suraeNoether>** how is everyone?
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**\<suraeNoether>** who had fun at MCC? \*this guy\*
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**\<suraeNoether>** okay
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**\<suraeNoether>** well let's beign
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**\<suraeNoether>** begin\*
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**\<suraeNoether>** for the roundtable portion
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**\<suraeNoether>** let's start with general questions from the audience, and let's go around and see if anyone has anything to present
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**\<suraeNoether>** other than sarang and i anyway
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**\<sarang>** Heh, I suppose we can move to presentations
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**\<suraeNoether>** yup
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**\<sarang>** go ahead suraeNoether
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**\<suraeNoether>** go ahead sir
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**\<suraeNoether>** ahah
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**\<sarang>** jinx
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**\<suraeNoether>** okay
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**\<suraeNoether>** well, CLSAG paper is undergoing the final round the corner. sarang and i are working on the final details today with randomrun, and i hope we can make a public version of the paper available in the next several days (unless some flaw is found)
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**\<sarang>** Yeah, just need that timing data and a definite answer on the hash coeffs in the proof
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**\<suraeNoether>** DLSAG paper is undergoing further review, but I believe we are putting up an IACR version of that in the coming days also
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**\<sarang>** Yep, waiting on all authors to sign off
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**\<suraeNoether>** MRL11 is still in progress, but now that clsag and dlsag are off my plate, it's being cranked up in terms of priority
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**\<suraeNoether>** i anticipate rapid progress on that as well
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**\<suraeNoether>** May 20-24, sarang and endogenic and I are doing the Monero workshop, and I believe we may be having Gao from Clemson come give us talks on starks and fully homomorphic encryption in the RLWE setting
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**\<suraeNoether>** (sarang, we should do some studying before then together on that)
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**\<sarang>** of course
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**\<suraeNoether>** I gave a talk, sat on a panel, and gave an interview at the magical crypto conference
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**\<suraeNoether>** all of those are up on youtube; the talk was about four different branches of research here at MRL
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**\<suraeNoether>** other than that, i guess i'd prefer answering questions rather than talking myself into a rabbit hole
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**\<suraeNoether>** nioc and i have had some conversations about how long-winded i can be so i'm going to zip it unless folks want more details :D
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**\<sarang>** Any questions for suraeNoether on this work?
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**\<suraeNoether>** so, for the audience members who are new
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**\<suraeNoether>** DLSAG = dual-recipient output signatures = work toward the claim-or-refund primitive that can underly smart contracts and lightning network. CLSAG = compressed signatures making the rate of growth on the monterion blockchain hopefully 25% smaller and faster to verify
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**\<suraeNoether>** MRL11 = traceability resistance analysis
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**\<suraeNoether>** so, work is important, hard, and slow going, but doing it right is very important to us
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**\<suraeNoether>** anyway, sarang, how about yourself?
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**\<sarang>** Plenty to mention
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**\<sarang>** I had overhauled some definitions and such in the CLSAG paper, which suraeNoether has completed more edits on
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**\<sarang>** In particular, some stuff on multi-asset transactions that could be enabled by this
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**\<sarang>** I'll get timing data and then we can release for review
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**\<moneromooo>** "multi-asset" being akin to coloured coins ?
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**\<sarang>** ya
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**\<sarang>** Not saying I'm recommending such a thing for us, but it's an easy application
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**\<sarang>** I've been working on some draft protocols for how a Monero coinjoin could work
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**\<sarang>** Right now the initial scheme requires a certain amount of trust in a dealer, but is very efficient
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**\<sarang>** This is obviously not ideal
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**\<sarang>** MoJoin, I call it
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**\<sarang>** FWIW it doesn't leak spend data to the dealer, only the partition of inputs-and-outputs to each player in the join
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**\<sarang>** sgp\_ and I did two Breaking Monero episodes, one on input/output counts and one on block explorers
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**\<sarang>** that's the main stuff for me
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**\<suraeNoether>** oh, guys: we are deciding to extend early-bird pricing for a few more days
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**\<suraeNoether>** i'll be advertising it
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**\<suraeNoether>** but don't forget to get your ticket at monerokon.com before prices change, if you are still coming
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**\<suraeNoether>** students are especially encouraged to attend; there will likely be partial rebates at the door for student tickets
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**\<sarang>** Any particular questions for me?
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**\<suraeNoether>** how many rounds of interaction in mojoin?
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**\<moneromooo>** The "Gao [...] fully homomorphic" thing makes me wonder if that could not be looked at in conjunction with dealerless coinjoin :)
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**\<sarang>** 3
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**\<sarang>** This is minimal because of the BP MPC
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**\<suraeNoether>** yeah, that's cool. moneromooo i think that's probably a safe avenue of stuff for us to talk about
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**\<sarang>** Er, no... 4 rounds now, sorry
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**\<sarang>** I had to make a change
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**\<suraeNoether>** oh
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**\<sarang>** The extra round is to avoid commitment sums being used to brute-force the partition by an observer
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**\<sarang>** Making the resulting transaction identical to one not MoJoined (although the output count is something of a giveaway)
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**\<moneromooo>** BTW, something I've not done in the branch is merging outputs to the same destination (originally the intent was to make Alice + Bob atomically paying Carol).
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**\<moneromooo>** Would that be possible with the dealer based coinjoin ?
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**\<sarang>** So A+B generate a single joint output?
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**\<moneromooo>** yes.
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**\<sarang>** I don't think it's possible to do the BP MPC without leaking the full mask
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**\<sarang>** unless that's acceptable
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**\<moneromooo>** That's fine in that case since Alice and Bob to advertise what they're paying, since each of them verifies the other does pay.
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**\<sarang>** Would this assume another side channel between them that's outside of the join?
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**\<sarang>** So it'd be a plug-and-play operation into a join?
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**\<moneromooo>** I dunno. If you need one I guess.
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**\<sarang>** Hmm
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**\<sarang>** It's probably possible, under the right trust model between A+B
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**\<sarang>** Of course, "probably possible" is quite the weaselworld
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**\<sgp\_>** I'm here and caught up, sorry for being late
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**\<sarang>** hi
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**\<suraeNoether>** nbd
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**\<sarang>** talking coinjoin
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**\<fort3hlulz>** Whats the advantage for Monero in using a CoinJoin implementation? if its better to chat later about it Ill shutup :)
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**\<suraeNoether>** no, that's a great question
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**\<moneromooo>** It adds another layer of privacy. If Eve looks at one tx, she can't assume anymore than all the inputs are from hte same owner.
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**\<sarang>** Yeah, it tries to break the common-ownership assumption
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**\<fort3hlulz>** Ah, so its a mitigation of poisoning/EAE attacks specifically? How does it affect Tx size/blockchain bloat?
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**\<sarang>** My thought about the dealer model (if it's a necessity, which is yet TBD) is that under a malicious dealer assumption, you basically revert back to the current model
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**\<moneromooo>** If we're lucky, smaller txes since one single BP :)
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**\<sarang>** Another quick note that hyc and I had a call with Trail of Bits, an auditor who submitted a SoW
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**\<sarang>** they'll be updating their numbers, and noted that another project may be interested in helping fund RandomX
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**\<sarang>** We'll have a call with those folks tomorrow
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**\<hyc>** Hi, just finished my other call
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**\<sarang>** yo
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**\<hyc>** yeah, some good stuff from Trail of Bits
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**\<fort3hlulz>** Awesome, I'm excited to learn more about CoinJoin on Monero as well as CLSAG, thanks guys! Ill get out of your hair now :)
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**\<sarang>** Thanks for the question fort3hlulz
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**\<sarang>** The security of coinjoins in Monero is still very much in the air
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**\<hyc>** also for the benchmark freaks (like me) Huawei has offered to give me access to some servers with their newest chip, for benchmarking purposes
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**\<hyc>** will be getting efficiency numbers for CN/R and RandomX on ARMv8
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**\<suraeNoether>** ooooh
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**\<suraeNoether>** thats... fantastic...
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**\<sarang>** nice
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**\<hyc>** thes guys https://e.huawei.com/us/products/cloud-computing-dc/servers/arm-based
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**\<sarang>** We'll post the ToB updated SoW when they provide it
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**\<suraeNoether>** and MRL marches forward into tomorrow's yesterday of the future^tm
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**\<hyc>** general availability is end of June, early access is nice
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**\<hyc>** that's all for me
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**\<sarang>** Does anyone else have research to present?
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**\<sarang>** Or general questions at all?
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**\<suraeNoether>** whats the coolest plane you've flown?
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**\<luigi1113>** what kind of pie do you like?
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**\<suraeNoether>** berry berry
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**\<sarang>** suraeNoether: commercially, or piloting myself?
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**\<suraeNoether>** with greek yogurt
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**\<suraeNoether>** ^ both
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**\<sarang>** Commercially, Nepal
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**\<sarang>** Myself, in between buildings in downtown San Francisco and the Golden Gate
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**\<sarang>** which apparently is legal
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**\<suraeNoether>** not place, plane, but i'll accept your answer happily
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**\<suraeNoether>** that's awesome
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**\<sarang>** Oh heh, didn't see that
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**\<sarang>** Commercially, B787
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**\<sarang>** Myself, probably a DA40
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**\<sarang>** it's got the aerodynamics of a glider
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**\<sarang>** WEll
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**\<sarang>** Let's move to action items
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**\<sarang>** suraeNoether: ?
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**\<suraeNoether>** final dlsag review today
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**\<suraeNoether>** mrl11 rest of the week
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**\<suraeNoether>** uhmmm... and if anything else is handed back to me like clsag
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**\<sarang>** word
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**\<suraeNoether>** adjective
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**\<sarang>** I'll get those CLSAG timings into the paper and finalize the proof question we had
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**\<sarang>** Carry on with MoJoin
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**\<sarang>** etc.
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**\<sarang>** Any final words before we formally adjourn?
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**\<dEBRUYNE>** Perhaps a blog post from CLSAG could be written (similar to the one for Bulletproofs)
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**\<suraeNoether>** just excited for lunch
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**\<sarang>** "Signatures. They are smaller and faster."
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**\<dEBRUYNE>** I don't think many community members would understand CLSAG from the technical paper alone :P
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**\<sarang>** But yes, we could do that once we're satisfied with security
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**\<sgp\_>** People need these blog posts or else no one will know
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**\<suraeNoether>** dEBRUYNE: that would be good, yes.
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**\<sarang>** All righty, thanks to everyone for attending
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**\<sarang>** We are now formally adjourned; logs will appear shortly
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