Logs

<sgp_> Community workgroup meeting time
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/337
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. Stay up to date with the latest events by subscribing to this calendar: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<rehrar> hi guiz
<Xeagu__> Beep boop loading xeagu.exe
<rehrar> let's talk about the big Monero vulnerability that allows me to steal everyone's Monero
<ErCiccione> Hi
<Xeagu__> rehrar was that in the DLC?
<rehrar> key new feature of next GUI release
<Xeagu__> I'll just use the *other* GUI release
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights and Moneroversary reflection
<sgp_> rehrar now maintains news highlights at https://revuo-monero.com/. The most recent article is from 2 days ago.
<sgp_> Most notably, Monero celebrated its 5th Moneroversary on Thursday April 18.
<sgp_> riat planned a full day of events that was well-received. They included a livestreamed countdown that received 3,353 minutes of watch time so far.
<sgp_> Later that day, we hosted the showcase, which included nearly four hours of live events. This is the community’s most viewed event. It has over 23,637 minutes of watch time so far.
<sgp_> Other various communities hosted local events. Mastering Monero released its ebook and free PDF versions to celebrate.
<sgp_> I would like to thank everyone who participated in the events. We set the bar high this year, and I look forward to years of Moneroversary celebrations in the future!
<Xeagu__> I watched 666 minutes of that watch time
<sgp_> Does anyone else have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
<ErCiccione> If somebody missed the news about the Ecosystem project: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/bhp5j6/the_monero_ecosystem_now_has_a_chatroom_and_a/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] The Monero Ecosystem now has a chatroom and a website (moneroecosystem.org), Join us! (self.Monero) | 41 points (89.0%) | 6 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2019-04-26 - 17:40:51
<ErCiccione> Basically: new website and chat (#monero-ecosystem)
<Xeagu__> 14 people came to the Church of Monero Mass 34
<sgp_> 3. CCS updates
<sgp_> CCS proposals still needing funding:
<sgp_> GUI UX coding (3 months) (97.48 / 282 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/dsc-2019-q2.html
<sgp_> xiphon part time coding (3 months) (16.28 / 110 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/xiphon-part-time.html
<sgp_> knueffelbund GUI design for Q2 2019 (24.87 / 37 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/knueffelbund-gui-design-for-q2-2019.html
<sgp_> ErCiccione: Coordinator of the Localization Workgroup – March (20.03 / 144 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-localizations.html
<sgp_> CCS proposals in ideas to be discussed one at a time:
<rehrar> most of those are actually funded more than they are shown
<rehrar> someone made a donation that donated to several proposals in one transaction, and we didn't anticipate that, so it only shows up on one.
<sgp_> rehrar: is there a delay now? It used to be nearly instant
<rehrar> xiphon: made a fix, and it'll be live soon
<sgp_> oh, I see
<sgp_> interesting background
<ErCiccione> this is the related issue: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/issues/4
<sgp_> Korean Translations GUI & CLI https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/56
<Xeagu__> Yeah waiting on approval still
<sgp_> after much discussion, it seems most people are not comfortable working through an intermediary to fund someone the community has never spoken to before
<Xeagu__> sgp_: the core team has not reached consensus yet
<sgp_> from what I tell they have not commented yet
<rehrar> luigi has commented
<sgp_> oh, never mind then
<rehrar> and I've spoken with him briefly about this
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Maybe your friend could start working on one translation on a volunteer basis, and consider the CCS after? that would help the CCS to be accepted i think Xeagu__
<dsc_> I'd just like to thank everyone who donated to my CCS thus far, or any CCS for that matter.
<sgp_> el00ruobuob_[m]: at the bare minimum, it would give some assurance of quality
<el00ruobuob_[m]> yes, for sure
<rehrar> el00ruobuob_[m]: this would be massive, yes
<ErCiccione> <el00ruobuob_[m]: I think most of the concerns are about the fact that the community don't feel that a paied middle man is necessary
<rehrar> Xeagu__: take note dude ^
<Xeagu__> The core team retains full control of funds at all times. They don't need assurance of quality because they hold all the cards at all times
<rehrar> Xeagu__: while this may be true, we're not talking about funds
<rehrar> we're talking about getting it moved
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i think there are two point there: the middleman, and the new contributor
<rehrar> *moved in the first place
<rehrar> almost every CCS has seen the proposer do some amount of volunteer work
<Xeagu__> Rehrar no they want me to bow to their command and I bow to no authority but God. It will be accepted by merit alone or it won't be accepted at all.
<rehrar> even other people who request money for translations typically have some XMR volunteer trnaslation under their belt
<sgp_> Xeagu__: this argument can be trivially extrapolated to "move anything, only pay out what they want" which isn't the real situation. There is still an initial vetting process before moving to funding required
<rehrar> Xeagu__: dude, stop being a dork
<rehrar> I don't know which "they" you're talking about
<rehrar> lack of volunteer work has been a point of contention on many previous proposals
<rehrar> yours is not special
<rehrar> yours is not special
<sgp_> Xeagu__: we literally cannot assess the merit based on the proposal you created
<rehrar> one more time
<rehrar> yours is NOT special
<ErCiccione> i can't believe we are still talking about this.
<jtgrassie> same
<rehrar> the aspect I'm talking about has nothign to do with you, your religion, or any other absurd contrivance you have in your head
<rehrar> volunteer work goes a long way
<sgp_> unless there are other comments, I'd like to move on. All these points have been stated before
<Xeagu__> Whoever demands that I do my work "their" way even if my work sufficiently meets the needs of the project goals.
<rehrar> yes, let's move on
<rehrar> I'm quickly losing patience
<sgp_> Monero currency and blockchain statistics hub https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/58
<Xeagu__> We can attach these logs to the proposal comments
<ErCiccione> Xeagu__ get a job and some dignity, we have work to do.
<sgp_> this other proposal is not very detailed, but I appreciate the user taking the effort to create something of interest
<sgp_> I personally would like to see some more detailed project requirements
<ErCiccione> about that proposal, i think the idea is interesting and i too think we miss those statistics,
<rehrar> regarding this proposal, I have the same issue as with Xeagu's
<ErCiccione> but i don't like the fact that we don't know much about him and that he basically ignored the results of his own poll
<sgp_> yes, we also have little background
<selsta> I don’t think CCS for a website are a good idea. They will stop maintaining these once the funds are paid out.
<rehrar> he says he's been working on another wallet, which was cancelled (which is cool), but I didn't see any of it
<rehrar> and besides that, I don't know him, or he doesn't have volunteer work as far as I can see
<rehrar> If I might say something real fast.
<ErCiccione> selsta: that's a good point
<rehrar> It's important to know that we have formalized rules and structures in place, which are written on a page there. But it's also important to realize the community and CCS have informal expectations (non-written)
<rehrar> as all organizations do, regardless of state of decentarlization
<Xeagu__> My proposal does not carry such continual funding requirements
<rehrar> so maybe this is a broader discussion. Should these informal expectations be written?
<rehrar> it'd help with the issues we have now
<sgp_> Xeagu__: your comment is off-topic for this other proposal
<serhack> I've worked with Monero-Noncesense Lab workgroup which aims to study blockchain systems from an empirical data science perspective.
<rehrar> maybe not as requirements, but information of culture
<rehrar> a statement that proposals are MUCH MORE likely to be moved if there is evidence of volunteer work
<sgp_> rehrar: I would honestly table this discussion since it gets broad really fast
<ErCiccione> I support some, even broad, guidelines for the CCS
<rehrar> ErCiccione: we have some
<rehrar> getting link
<serhack> All the details for Monero Noncesense Research Lab could be found on https://noncesense-research-lab.github.io/. I think it's an helpful project.
<rehrar> https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/
<Xeagu__> Is it possible to be a paid volunteer?
<ErCiccione> rehrar: yes, but i think they should be more strict (we discussed about this in past. I mean me and you.)
<nioc> serhack: I was just about to mention that AIUI NRL is working on things similar to what this proposal is offering
<rehrar> discussion tabled, sure.
<sgp_> in short though, I agree that a basic guide that says "the best proposals generally have x, y, z" could be useful even if it's just a malleable framework
<rehrar> until open ideas time
<rehrar> so we can stay on schedule
<sgp_> thanks, any other comment on this second proposal?
<Xeagu__> sgp_: would all proposals be held to that standard? Even future MRL ones?
<rehrar> I'm meh about it
<rehrar> rehrar approved stance (official) ^
<sgp_> Again, I do not support the current one without more specific requirements at least
<ErCiccione> + for meh
<selsta> Against it.
<ErCiccione> *+1
<rehrar> NEXT
<nioc> +1
<Xeagu__> If we consider applying standards for proposals, they should apply to all CCS proposals
<sgp_> lol rehrar
<rehrar> we'll continue discussion at the end of the meeting Xeagu__
<rehrar> promise
<rehrar> I have an interest in this discussion too
<sgp_> 4. Workgroup report
<sgp_> a. Localization workgroup
<Xeagu__> Or we have a small group of people calling all the shots, in which case why are we even voting at all
<Xeagu__> Yay I left one tyranny for another!
<rehrar> Xeagu__: hold off-topic comments until appropriate time please.
<rehrar> At the end of this meeting this discussion will continue, I said.
<rehrar> failure to do so will result in a mute until the end of the meeting when the discussion starts
<rehrar> *resumes
<Xeagu__> Excuse me warden
<rehrar> that's Mr. warden to you
<rehrar> either way, ErCiccione
<rehrar> go on
<ErCiccione> So,
<ErCiccione> Recently we pushed the Turkish translation. A lot of work there, not perfect, but the group behind it is working on some improvements. I'm in contact with them by email
<ErCiccione> *turkish translation of getmonero.org
<ErCiccione> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/bgv7ai/getmoneroorg_available_in_turkish_our_website_now/
<monerobux> [REDDIT] Getmonero.org available in Turkish - Our website now speaks 11 languages!! (self.Monero) | 66 points (93.0%) | 14 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2019-04-24 - 14:21:39
<ErCiccione> The main point i want to discuss about now is Pootle
<ErCiccione> As i said during last meeting, i'm a bit concerned about the state of the development. Apparently the developers started to work on it again, but intermittently. This put me in a weird situation,
<rehrar> still gotta email me the stuffs you were talking about ;)
<Xeagu__> If it's not broke, don't fix it
<Xeagu__> We shouldn't be wasting community resources digging holes and filling them back in
<ErCiccione> rehrar: totally forgot about it, sorry man, will send you everything after i'm done
<rehrar> no worries, I've been stupid busy with Defcon related things anyways.So I wouldn't have got to it even if you did.
<ErCiccione> as i was saying, the weird situation is that pootle is working, but could be vulnerable, since not really actively developed. ATm i'm inclined to keep using it until i see that it doesn't fit our needs anymore,
<Xeagu__> ErCiccione: would you sabotage the translations platform Pootle to stop me from using it to produce Korean translations?
<ErCiccione> but i think i will call a Localization Workgroup meeting about this, to see what the workgroup at large thinks about the issue
<sgp_> Xeagu__: that comment is unacceptable
<ErCiccione> Xeagu__: get a doctor.
<Xeagu__> It's a question not a comment
<selsta> ErCiccione: Would switching to a different platform help with the syncing problem?
<dsc_> preferably you'd be able to update translations dynamically as changes happen
<rehrar> final warning Xeagu__
<ErCiccione> selsta: what syncing problem?
<dsc_> one that does not require a code freeze
<ErCiccione> dsc_: we already do that, i sync pootle every month or so, the code freeze is only necessary because we tend to push commits which add/remove strings right before tagging andreleasing
<selsta> Adding a string should not have an effect on other strings.
<selsta> ideally
<el00ruobuob_[m]> do think dsc_ of a system which create a PR each time a string is translated & approved?
<dEBRUYNE> rehrar: I haven't checked it yet
<dEBRUYNE> I'd like a system where we wouldn't have to code freeze
<dEBRUYNE> or where a simple string change doesn't mess up the whole translation
<ErCiccione> selsta: not sure of what you mean, but it doesn't on pootle. It does for the way QT handles translations. It basically have to go pick the strings in thecode and resync them with the language files
<dsc_> The nature of those translation files is such that strings are mapped to code, using the line number as an identifier. This characteristic makes a code freeze neccesary and is not related to how Qt works, rather how Pootle works (I can think of a dynamic system that accounts for this)
<dsc_> So I was wondering if there was a Pootle equivalent that could do this
<selsta> ^
<ErCiccione> to be clear, translators continuously submit translations, once they are ready they get pushed to the repo and synced
<Xeagu__> Yeah technically you can submit translations manually without Pootle by just pushing commits to the main gitlab branch
<dsc_> Well, keep it in mind if you're evaluating new systems. In addition, we are developers - if it does not exist we can make it :P
<ErCiccione> ok now i got it. That's actually not a problem. I could create a scipt that pull new strings from github everytime they get pushed and update pootle, but that won't solve the fact that if strings are pushed right before the release, they need to be approved
<ErCiccione> dsc_ ^
<el00ruobuob_[m]> a great system would have a tagged uuid associated to each string to keep track on them
<dsc_> Sure but at least we can still change the code (read: change line numbers)
<dsc_> using our future NewSystem(tm)
<Xeagu__> The approval process for verifying translations before each release sounds cumbersome
<ErCiccione> that can still be done, the script could refresh the code each time. I don't automate it because i review and sign the commits
<dsc_> I think you lose the mappings that way
<ErCiccione> anyway, i'm totally open to a better system, i think we can set a Localization Workgroup meeting to discuss about this as well
<rehrar> ye
<dsc_> Cool we can discuss it afterwards ErCiccione
<el00ruobuob_[m]> +1
<dsc_> Pootle is an improvement anyway :)
<ErCiccione> Sure
<Xeagu__> I like Pootle
<sgp_> Any other localization comments?
<ErCiccione> dsc_: definitely a huge improvement from every point of view.
<dsc_> Yes :)
<sgp_> b. GUI workgroup
<sgp_> Can you please discuss the recent meeting you had and recap the recent changes dsc_?
<Xeagu__> Are we implementing any changes to the decoy selection algorithm?
<dsc_> Sure, afaik. selsta has some updates
<sgp_> Xeagu__: that's probably off-topic here, but yes
<Xeagu__> A change to the GUI wallet is off topic in discussion about GUI changes?
<selsta> We are still trying to get Qt 5.9 running.
<selsta> Other than that, this release is going to be awesome.
<el00ruobuob_[m]> GUI meeting logs are here for those who are interested: bc2d7e6691/_posts/2019-04-23-logs-for-the-GUI-meeting-held-on-2019-04-23.md
<sgp_> That's not specific the GUI, it uses the same code as the CLI Xeagu__
<sgp_> ty el00ruobuob_[m]
<el00ruobuob_[m]> yw
<selsta> White theme, UI improvements, bug fixes...
<sgp_> I saw a lot of stuff was merged a few days ago
<dsc_> Yes, latest master is looking great. Compile to see what we worked on.
<ErCiccione> Oh, forgot to say, New GUI will have a new language: Hindi <- that's a big one actually
<dsc_> nice
<dsc_> I've scheduled GUI meetings every tuesday, 17:00 UTC
<dsc_> #monero-gui
<sgp_> great, let me know how those go
<sgp_> I'll add them to the calendar
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i'll try to make it and grab the logs each times dsc_
<dsc_> That would be great el00ruobuob_[m] thanks a lot
<kinghat> i love dark themes, i use them as everywhere i can. my special eyes. but does anyone think the white theme should be default to match the website so there is some type of cohesion there?
<selsta> We’ll leave it optional for now.
<selsta> We can think about making it default later.
<dsc_> context: https://imgur.com/a/EBhSh9j
<kinghat> sure. i know its more of a gui channel thing and i brought it up at the meeting, but maybe the community channel has some input? awesome work on the gui btw!
<dsc_> ErCiccione: Regarding GUI code freeze, monday most likely
<sgp_> I think dark is much more common now and is ok as the default
<sgp_> Anyone else have an opinion? Any final comments?
<ErCiccione> Great to know dsc_, thanks, but are we code freezing before the core repo branch? this would be a first time
<dsc_> Could very well be the case ;)
<dsc_> Actually no.
<dsc_> core goes first always :P
<ErCiccione> yes, don't think would be a good idea to freeze before
<dsc_> we depend on it
<ErCiccione> talking with the pony, he wanted to branch some days ago, but i guess some stuff still needs to go in.
<sgp_> He originally played with the idea for tagging for the Moneroversary
<ErCiccione> In fact, translations for the CLI are already merged
<kinghat> sgp_: if thats the case, and i welcome it, the website should be dark as well.
<dsc_> kinghat: pr welcome ;p
<sgp_> kinghat: hmm, interesting point. Taken there I don't know if I agree, so I'll have to think about it more for sure
<sgp_> rehrar has some agenda items for open ideas, so let's move on
<sgp_> thanks selsta, dsc_, and ErCiccione
<el00ruobuob_[m]> a dark mode for the website? that's a lot of CSS fun for rehrar!
<kinghat> dsc_: i thought the white theme is already in the next gui release?
<dsc_> kinghat: getmonero.org is also on git
<sgp_> 5. Open ideas time
<sgp_> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<sgp_> rehrar, you wanted to start talking about the Revuo
<kinghat> ya i know its on there.
<dsc_> Moneroversary puzzle by needmoney90 was cool. I'm creating one of my own. If anyone has cool puzzle ideas, please pm me.
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Yes
<kinghat> dsc_: make it take place in a dungeon. with dragooons.
<sgp_> dsc_: cool
<kinghat> and make them have large talons.
<rehrar> ok, so
<rehrar> one thing to discuss is the Revuo
<kinghat> plz dont reply with "prs welcome" 👅
<rehrar> for those who haven't yet seen it, take a look at revuo-monero.com
<needmoney90> There's a meeting?
<rehrar> a few questions for everyone
<needmoney90> Thanks for the ping dsc_
<dsc_> anytime
<rehrar> 1. Publish on a day other than thursday?
<rehrar> Right now we're publishing on thursday. Is another day better?
<needmoney90> Ive considered a puzzle workgroup dsc_
<rehrar> 2. Any ideas for other sections?
<needmoney90> I enjoyed putting it together
<needmoney90> Puzzle section as suggest rehrar
<rehrar> 3. Styling? If anyone has any comments or critiques on UI/UX, let me know
<rehrar> 5. The Merchant Highlight. Good idea? Bad idea? Sustainable?
<rehrar> oops. that would be 4.
<needmoney90> 4 uses ringct
<rehrar> I'm trying to make this into a valuable resource for the community.
<rehrar> which means listening to community feedback
<rehrar> needmoney90: get me some puzzles, bro
<el00ruobuob_[m]> 5.(or is it 4?) good idea
<sgp_> 1. no preference, possible to A/B test based on views? 2. my biggest feedback is on the contributing section, especially on ways to make these more approachable 3. no comments 4. sure, why not keep trying it and see how it goes
<nioc> yes to The Merchant Highlight
<rehrar> ok, that's it from me :D
<rehrar> please send further feedback my way
<sgp_> how about we move on to the second item, CCS guidelines. We probably need a dedicated meeting for this later too
<nioc> can even include those that take direct Monero donations such as VLC and Tor
<nioc> under Merchants
<nioc> or similar
<rehrar> yeah, I've been thinking of donations stuffs too
<rehrar> either way, CCS Guidelines
<rehrar> any further comments on the formalization (semi-formalization) of the CCS guidelines
<sgp_> I think setting examples of good/bad submission scenarios is helpful
<rehrar> hmmm...
<needmoney90> All funded participants should participate in the funding thread
<sgp_> exactly, something like that
<needmoney90> Otherwise we could get a situation where someone hires out to fiverrr etc
<sarang> Xeagu__: yes we are updating decoy selection at the next point update
<xmrmatterbridge> <learninandlurkin> Rather than guidelines you could just call them "Tips for successful applications"
<sgp_> yes, that's basically what they are
<rehrar> we have that
<nioc> needmoney90: +1
<xmrmatterbridge> <learninandlurkin> Also I think the featured merchant section on revuo is great. And it should definitely have donation type things
<sgp_> rehrar: I think we mean just adding a few "extra pointers" to this list: https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/
<rehrar> ok
<xmrmatterbridge> <learninandlurkin> That's a sensible rule
<xmrmatterbridge> <learninandlurkin> a minimal level of engagement across platforms is a good idea
<rehrar> and what might those be?
<sgp_> eg: "the community prefers known proposers with a history of good work"
<rehrar> So there seems to be some confusion
<rehrar> because there actually IS only a tiny group making these decisions
<rehrar> and the reason for voting in a placel ike this
<rehrar> is just gauging some community sentiment
<rehrar> not deciding anything
<el00ruobuob_[m]> learninandlurkin: contribution to any code repo, help of users on reddit/stackexchange...?
<rehrar> this meeting/workgroup and stuff don't decide anything in regards to the CCS
<sgp_> rehrar: sure, but the discussions influence the decisions
<el00ruobuob_[m]> rehrar, we should definitely add a "participate to community meeting where the proposal is discussed"
<rehrar> to what extent?
<sgp_> rehrar: it's often used by core team, asking if they talked here first, or looking at concerns listed here to see if they are addressed
<el00ruobuob_[m]> having the submiters in the meeting would help getting feedbacks
<rehrar> the amount to which these discussions influence decisions is not revealed
<rehrar> and we shouldn't overstate it
<sgp_> rehrar: I merely mean to convey ways people can benefit their proposal
<sgp_> technically "drumming up support" isn't necessary if they are already talking with the core team and donors, for example
<ErCiccione> rehrar: they are the stewards of the community, if we consider them as people who decides and we just give our opinion, they are not stewards anymore
<rehrar> they are stewards of many things
<sgp_> Obviously this workgroup doesn't make the final decision, but we need to not pretend that the decisions are often based on the discussions here
<rehrar> but they run the CCS
<rehrar> I wouldn't use the term steward for the CCS
<xmrmatterbridge> <learninandlurkin> I think a tip to attend meeting (community workgroup or otherwise) is a good one
<rehrar> correct sgp_
<el00ruobuob_[m]> +1 learninandlurkin
<sgp_> so we shoudl provide guidelines on how to approach these meetings, etc. to best support their proposal
<sgp_> even if we don't make the final call
<Xeagu__> And recognize while today it is not proposal getting stone walled, tomorrow it might be.
<rehrar> I'll think about how to phrase things
<Xeagu__> *not your proposal
<sgp_> a statement like "the core team often prefers proposers who participate in the community meetings and address feedback" is useful without being inaccurate or misleading
<Xeagu__> If only we had some spreadsheet to keep track of who attends weekly meetings.
<Xeagu__> As a general gauge of involvement and time investment
<ErCiccione> sgp_: mmh, i don't think we should write down what the core team prefers without having an input from thenm
<rehrar> the community perfers that sgp
<rehrar> and makes recommendation to the core team based off of it
<sgp_> ErCiccione: of course
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Xeagu__, you can browse the meeting logs on the repo/website to track people attendance
<xmrmatterbridge> <learninandlurkin> ErCiccione : will the ecosystem channel be relayed to mattermost?
<sgp_> I'm speaking on the experience of others discussing at the meetings first per core team recommendation, though it can be anything else too
<Xeagu__> Sure but why would you want to burden the core team with that additional task of reading?
<sgp_> Xeagu__: they aren't required to read it
<ErCiccione> learninandlurkin: sure, didn't think about it, I will ask pigeons.
<sgp_> but they can if they want
<Xeagu__> Sure, but do they? A spreadsheet tracking attendance would give them a summary of community activity and participation.
<rehrar> interesting thoughts
<sgp_> Xeagu__: that may be a good idea, but it seems like a mostly separate idea
<rehrar> while some people make name for themselves in the community
<rehrar> how does taht decay over time
<rehrar> is the basic question
<rehrar> if I was to leave for a year
<rehrar> and come back
<rehrar> should my voice carry the same weight?
<rehrar> that it does now
<sgp_> philosophy sidetracks with rehrar
<Xeagu__> I've been thinking about this with the COM
<ErCiccione> Xeagu__: funny to read you saying this, whenyou attended only the community meetings where your CCS proposal was discussed.
<Xeagu__> Make reset the list every year or so
<Xeagu__> S/make/maybe
<el00ruobuob_[m]> you're voice will be important to me, to the end of times rehrar...
<Xeagu__> ErCiccione: I have attended many many meetings
<sgp_> since this is getting well off-topic, rehrar can you please explain exactly what you are looking for? It's very unclear to me
<ErCiccione> Xeagu__: no, you didn't. Logs are public, genius.
<sgp_> ErCiccione: let's put that aside
<Xeagu__> ErCiccione: if you had a spreadsheet, you could call me out for having attended fewer meetings than you
<Xeagu__> But since you don't have an exact number, it's arbitrary
<sgp_> same for you Xeagu__
<ErCiccione> sgp_: lies must be called out, especially if they are logged.
<rehrar> nothing in mind specifically
<Xeagu__> How is this off topic sgp_ when you introduced the idea just a few messages back
<ErCiccione> Xeagu__: it;s not, logs are public on the website and can be seen by everybody. You are a lier.
<Xeagu__> Quote : 2:14 PM <• sgp_> a statement like "the core team often prefers proposers who participate in the community meetings and address feedback" is useful without being inaccurate or misleading
<sgp_> rehrar: you, for example, are strongly opposed to people who open proposals who don't have past volunteer work
<rehrar> well yes, but that's my opinion
<sgp_> does it worry you that it's not included anywhere? is this something the Core Team shares? If so, it should be documented somewhere as a preference
<rehrar> I'm not polling what people think of my ideas
<rehrar> but rather what ideas people might have for inclusion'
<rehrar> if you think I should poll for my own ideas, I can do that
<sgp_> I think next stesp then could be presenting a list of common recommendations to the Core Team and seeing which ones they agree with
<rehrar> true
<rehrar> well, we're running long
<rehrar> maybe we can call it here and discussino can continue
<rehrar> and we can maybe have a meeting speicifcally for CCS stuff
<sgp_> all right, I can make a lit of these things then and ask for others to add comments, then message the core team
<rehrar> and try to get core team here for verification
<sgp_> yes, very incomplete to have these meta discussions without them
<rehrar> this is a tough discussion to have, I understand
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i believe we could say something like "the community rarely approve CCS without a past volunteer work"
<rehrar> since the reality is that it's the core team's system
<rehrar> and people don't like to be under their power to that extent
<selsta> What is the exact problem with the CCS that is getting discussed right now?
<rehrar> but it's the way it is
<rehrar> selsta: that people want clarification on the acceptance process
<sgp_> I'm going to call the meeting since we are over, have no other discussion topics, and the conversation has regressed considerably. Future CCS-specific meetings are probably necessary
<rehrar> that's the primary thing
<sgp_> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 11 May at 17:00 UTC.
<sgp_> The next Coffee Chat is next Saturday 4 May at 16:00 UTC (before the Defcon meeting).
<Xeagu__> selsta: there are no established rules for CCS format and some proposals get approved or denied without clear reasons why
<sgp_> When in doubt, use the calendar. It now has several people adding meetings, so it’s a great resource: https://xmr.ncrypt.sh/index.php/apps/calendar/p/8dP6z6XQDnkPREo4/Monero-Meetings
<sgp_> 7. Conclusion
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
<needmoney90> Thanks Justin
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Thank you all! Enjoy your lifes!
<sgp_> dsc_: I added your meetings to the calendar

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