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105 lines
8.2 KiB
Markdown
105 lines
8.2 KiB
Markdown
---
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layout: post
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title: Logs for the Monero Research Lab Meeting Held on 2019-07-08
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summary: Surae work, Sarang work, and miscellaneous
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tags: [dev diaries, community, crypto, research]
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author: el00ruobuob / sarang
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---
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# Logs
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**\<sarang>** Righto, let's begin our meeting!
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**\<sarang>** Agenda: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/368
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**\<sarang>** Starting now with GREETINGS
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**\<sarang>** hi
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**\<sgp\_>** Hi
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**\<sarang>** suraeNoether: you here?
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**\<sarang>** It's quiet... too quiet...
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**\<suraeNoether>** yes
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**\<suraeNoether>** sorry
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**\<suraeNoether>** hellow gents
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**\<suraeNoether>** harrow
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**\<sarang>** Let's jump into ROUNDTABLE then, with our small crowd
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**\<suraeNoether>** mine is going to be super fast: last week basically right after the research meeting i started getting very ill. long story short, i went to the hospital, and let me just say: recreational pancreatitis is not a thing for a reason
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**\<sarang>** but it'd be a cool name for a band
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**\<suraeNoether>** yes. yes. \*strokes chin\*
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**\<suraeNoether>** so, i'm trying to take it easy and i did very little this past week
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**\<sarang>** Glad to see you're well enough to debug :)
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**\<sarang>** For me, MLSAG/CLSAG verification updates continue, with PR 5707 open for review and similar changes to my CLSAG branch (to be included in later code for review)
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**\<suraeNoether>** i have a few things on my plate for today, but other than that: i'm basically all action items and no progress compared to last week. onto sarang :D
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**\<sarang>** I've been in contact with Aram, the author of the Lelantus paper/protocol; he came up with an interesting idea to make the prover very efficient, at the cost of proof size and verification
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**\<sarang>** although the verification cost can be batched, of course
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**\<sarang>** I view proving time as generally unimportant (to an extent), but it's a very clever new way to prove a 1-of-N zero commitment
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**\<suraeNoether>** good prover times means fast construction of transaction for mobile devices
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**\<suraeNoether>** which is v nice
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**\<sarang>** true
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**\<sarang>** but if it costs you both space and verification time...
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**\<suraeNoether>** unlike, say, verification time, which puts a constraint on how rapidly the network can grow, which has security consequences for the chain
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**\<suraeNoether>** ^ ah yeah that's true: is it faster with a big space tradeoff?
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**\<sarang>** Faster prover, slower verifier, bigger proof
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**\<sarang>** I think you can batch away some of the verification increase (you effectively do two smaller proofs)
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**\<sarang>** There's a non-public draft writeup already, but I assume he'll work it into the main paper once the modified security proofs are complete
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**\<suraeNoether>** oooof
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**\<suraeNoether>** very interesting consequences
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**\<sarang>** Regardless, it's a damn clever construction
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**\<suraeNoether>** i'm excited to read all about it
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**\<sarang>** I'll ask if I can send it to you suraeNoether (not public though, sorry)
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**\<sarang>** I'm investigating a possible modification to Omniring that splits out the range proofs, improving verification batching at the cost of proof size
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**\<sarang>** And, because of the Omniring non-batching currently available, am revisiting analysis of RCT3
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**\<sarang>** Which, while it would require a separate output pool (non-compatible key image structure), does allow for batching of proofs (aside from ring member group elements, which cannot be batched unless reused)
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**\<suraeNoether>** last we spoke about this, we were still interested in writing up a comparison paper, but you've done all the legwork on it so far
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**\<suraeNoether>** still the plan?
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**\<sarang>** I don't consider a formal paper necessary, or even a great use of time
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**\<sarang>** But analyses of spacetime, totally
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**\<suraeNoether>** fair, maybe we can do a blog post on tradeoffs between the three schemes or something
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**\<sarang>** Maybe, but it gets subtle and complex really quickly under many different assumptions
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**\<sarang>** There isn't really a quick-and-dirty soundbite answer to which is better or worse
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**\<sarang>** Depends heavily on input/output structure, use of fixed epochs, batch behavior, etc.
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**\<sarang>** and output pool migration is nontrivial
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**\<sarang>** Omniring would \_not\_ require this... Lelantus and RCT3 would
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**\<sarang>** (or rather, Omniring does not \_require\_ this)
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**\<suraeNoether>** see... when you say all that, it seems like it \*is\* a good use of time. maybe not high priority, but
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**\<sarang>** A comparison is useful, I agree. But I don't want it to get lost in unnecessary formality of a full paper
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**\<sarang>** And a comparison is exactly what I'm doing
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**\<sarang>** Any questions on these topics?
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**\<sgp\_>** Just a comment to say simple comparisons are good
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**\<sarang>** roger
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**\<sarang>** Does anyone else have research topics of interest to share?
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**\<sarang>** Righto!
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**\<nioc>** suraeNoether: people are wondering what the attendance was at konferenco
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**\<sarang>** At least provide a range proof
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**\<moneromooo>** 26 people and 172 sybils.
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**\<nioc>** an article in coindesk mentioned 75 which I know is way low
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**\<suraeNoether>** nioc: i'm finishing up my post-mortem report on the konferenco today (on my action item list). We had 150 swag bags made, with around 30-40 leftover, but we had 27 speakers and like 10 sponsors.
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**\<nioc>** I estimated 120 just by glancing
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**\<suraeNoether>** 75 is the number i gave coindesk for the number of attendees on Saturday morning, but more people bought tickets on both days and the totals were higher
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**\<suraeNoether>** if you count speakers and sponsors, that's around 110 on the first day, and around 125 the second
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**\<nioc>** think you mran Sunday morning
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**\<nioc>** mean
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**\<suraeNoether>** nope, we sold tickets throughout the afternoon on saturday and a few on sunday too. but coindesk asked for a comment on saturday morning, so i told them what i had sold at that point
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**\<nioc>** I'll wait for the report
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**\<suraeNoether>** k
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**\<nioc>** thx
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**\<sarang>** suraeNoether: congratulations on effectively committing yourself to running a kickass conference annually until the end of time =p
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**\<suraeNoether>** it was actually some of the best days of my life, but i've been told explicitly by my doctors that i need to take a vacation
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**\<suraeNoether>** so i'm planning for that in august, since scary cardio and internal medicine people told me so with stern voices
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**\<sarang>** Well then, let's move on to ACTION ITEMS
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**\<sarang>** I have many things in progress. Lelantus proof review, modified Omniring split proof analysis, RCT3 analysis, and starting to put together my defcon talk/workshop
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**\<suraeNoether>** my action items: konferenco post mortem, research report for previous quarter, funding request for the next 3 months, and some debuggin
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**\<sarang>** I'm doing a talk on transaction protocols (very high level), a workshop on simple cryptographic constructions with Python, and a panel discussion at the blockchain village
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**\<suraeNoether>** oh and i'm definitely not going to defcon this year. i can ship leftover swag like our USB data blockers with the monero logo and our pull-up banners if someone sends me the information for it
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**\<sarang>** :(
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**\<sarang>** The pull-up banners would be nice, assuming it's cheaper to ship than to get new ones
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**\<sarang>** as would the USB blockers
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**\<suraeNoether>** i'll look into it; ordering the usb blockers may be short notice but i can find out
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**\<suraeNoether>** unless you just meant shipping the banners
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**\<suraeNoether>** which is cool too
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**\<sarang>** Yeah I meant the banners
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**\<sarang>** I believe there was an idea to perhaps order more blockers for this (I'm not the one to ask)
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**\<sarang>** If you have extra USB blockers and would ship with the banners, cool
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**\<suraeNoether>** fantastic, i am happy folks liked the blockers
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**\<sarang>** Any last questions or comments before we formally adjourn, since agenda topics have been completed?
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**\<sarang>** Going once
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**\<sarang>** twice
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**\<sarang>** adjourned!
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**\<sarang>** Thanks to everyone for attending; logs will be posted shortly on the github issue
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