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Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2017-10-14
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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2017-10-14
summary: Community highlights, Forum Funding System updates, Monero Coffee Chat debrief, Monero meetups & meetup kit, open ideas time, and miscellaneous
tags: [community, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*October 14th, 2017*
# Logs
**\<sgp>** 1. Greetings
**\<ErCiccione>** hi!
**\<cryptochangement>** hey everyone!
**\<parasew[m]>** hey all! (travelling, so only online for 10more minutes!)
**\<nevvton>** Hi all
**\<sgp>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp>** For a great weekly summary, please read the Monero Observer: http://monero-observer.com/
**\<sgp>** I think we will just refer to the Observer from now on, since it covers this section nicely. Make sure to contribute to the FFS https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88453/monero-observer-weekly-recap-for-all-things-monero-weekly-newsletter
**\<ArticMine>** hi
**\<rehrar>** Yo yo
**\<sgp>** In addition to the Observer, amiuhle’s FFS for Kasisto development is in funding required: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88633/amiuhle-part-time-november-december-kasisto-development-monero-developer-documentation
**\<sgp>** 3. FFS updates
**\<serhack>** Oh community meeting! Hi everyone
**\<sgp>** (the part about Kasisto was supposed to be under item 3)
**\<rupee>** o/
**\<rehrar>** It's a bit of a shame. The Monero community just funded tons of stuff before these two FFS's, so I think everyone's a little 'gived out'
**\<sgp>** Welcome everyone making their way in
**\<serhack>** Thanks sgp
**\<sgp>** Yeah, there was a huge push a few weeks ago and things are quieter now
**\<sgp>** 4. Monero Coffee Chat debrief
**\<sgp>** Last Saturday, we hosted the first Monero Coffee Chat. I want to speak for a few minutes about how it went.
**\<sgp>** You can see the GitHub issue here: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/123
**\<sgp>** You can see the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKgnjqSXpA
**\<monerobux>** [ Monero Coffee Chat - 2017.10.07 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp>** The livestreaming did not work as expected. We used Jitsi instead of Hangouts to address several privacy concerns. Jitsi is open-source and has many of the same features as Hangouts, except for some reason I could not get the livestreaming function to work properly the day of the event.
**\<sgp>** (before I continue, let's have serhack and msvb-lab talk about their progress if they want)
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: Thanks, we've made some progress on RFC-HWALLET-1.
**\<msvb-lab>** Some news about that on the Taga site:
**\<msvb-lab>** https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-rfc-hwallet-1-implementation/
**\<msvb-lab>** First batch of boards is back from the printer and ready for assembly.
**\<msvb-lab>** And I'm writing the terms of the first device preview programme right now.
**\<sgp>** Sweet looks awesome! https://taiga.getmonero.org/media/attachments/3/c/c/e/942f59f32ca35f050c2bc8827405a48f991b2ee1bde275fc7bdfaecaa76a/rfchwalnulbrd-1.png
**\<msvb-lab>** Anyone interested in that should keep an eye on the project page and probably sign up as a Taiga user.
**\<serhack>** Hello guys, a little update by me. I have some news: whmcs estension released. We (I and cryptochangements) started Magento and OpenCart Extensions. I have tried to develop a custom manual payment gateway for shopify. Thanks everyone. My project is avaiable on Taiga too.
**\<sgp>** Thanks for using Tagia so people can stay updated on the progress
**\<msvb-lab>** We unfortunately still don't have a Github repository, but it will be called 'Sekura'.
**\<serhack>** msvb: Can I share that photo?
**\<cryptochangement>** sgp i would also like to say a quick word about magento if thats ok
**\<msvb-lab>** serhack: Yes, share anything at all.
**\<serhack>** I think you can cryptochangements
**\<vP11>** nice progress, I'll keep an eye on these projects :)
**\<msvb-lab>** Whoever has access to the taiga server config, please contact me to work out a problem sending email to the admins (me and Ivan.)
**\<msvb-lab>** That's all, any questions about a future Monero hardware wallet?
**\<sgp>** @cryptochangement feel free
**\<nevvton>** good work!! Platine looks great
**\<sgp>** @msvb-lab not really, though I'm excited :)
**\<msvb-lab>** serhack: I sent you a 'email to the project admins' on your taiga site, in order to become a tester for your project. Did you get the email?
**\<msvb-lab>** I suspect that the Taiga email system is not working.
**\<cryptochangement>** okay cool
**\<serhack>** No, I didnt
**\<serhack>** We should report that to rehrar
**\<msvb-lab>** Anyone know who's administrating Taiga?
**\<msvb-lab>** Rehrar yes?
**\<msvb-lab>** Cool.
**\<ErCiccione>** msvb-lab: it's not, i had problem recovering my email, hopefully rehrar can fix it soon
**\<msvb-lab>** So just this invitation to anyone interested in the hardware wallet:
**\<msvb-lab>** Please become a Taiga user, and request being on the RFC-HWALLET-1 project through non email means, like IRC.
**\<msvb-lab>** ...until the email problem is solved.
**\<msvb-lab>** Me or another admin will then add you manually, okay?
**\<rehrar>** pigeons1[m]: you around?
**\<parasew[m]>** just briefly (on plane now) we (riat) are organising a monero-month in december in vienna, including a larger monero-meetup around 13th-17th dec. nevvton will explain more. plan is also to prepare for the ccc monero-assembly in leipzig (which is confirmed!).
**\<rehrar>** He handles server-side stuff for the Mattermost and Taiga. :)
**\<serhack>** Cool msvb
**\<sgp>** @parasew I have a section later for nevvton to speak a bit about this
**\<nevvton>** yes.. I will wait for that!! stay tuned
**\<msvb-lab>** https://getmonero.org/community/events/
**\<sgp>** @msvb-lab we can talk about how that page needs to be updated later in the meeting
**\<sgp>** because it definitely does
**\<vP11>** msvb-lab, I don't think this page receives a lot of updates
**\<vP11>** yeah
**\<serhack>** That page doesnt receives any update
**\<sgp>** @cryptochangement want to talk about Magneto briefly?
**\<rehrar>** There is an update waiting to be merged
**\<cryptochangement>** yes, give me a second to type it all out ;)
**\<rehrar>** and it has an update to that page
**\<rehrar>** but the merging process for the website is taking quite some time
**\<rehrar>** besides ArticMine the people on Core have been quiet lately
**\<rehrar>** It doesn't matter how often PRs are sent for updating pages if they don't get merged and put up on the site. fluffypony is on vacation, I know, and he will be getting back very soon, so hopefully things will pick up a bit.
**\<cryptochangement>** okay so to give a quick update on magento: Right now the github repo hasnt seen activity in a while (sorry for keeping you guys in the dark) but i should be pushing loads of commits to the repo this weekend and ill probably make a reddit update about it (since i wasnt able to get everything done before this meeting) about it being functional as a "demo". Right now there are only
**\<cryptochangement>** 2 "mechanical" pieces that still need to be finished "behind the scenes" before it is *really* ready but the big eye-sore is the gateway design. Right now it is pretty bland (basically the payment box and a white background), so ill probably be looking to reddit for some design inspiration.
**\<serhack>** Cryptochangements: we should start to think about a New design for Monero Payment Box
**\<sgp>** We have a growing number of people in the community who are good at design. The Monera made our student group's latest Meetup poster, for instance
**\<serhack>** @krokbaltsar is a good designer :)
**\<cryptochangement>** yeah, the Monera is amazing with that kind of thing
**\<sgp>** @crytpochangement anything else you would like to add, or should we expect a Reddit update soon?
**\<vP11>** Indeed, we have a couple of good artists out there who would gladly help you. did you post it on reddit already?
**\<cryptochangement>** nothing else right now, ill update reddit once everything is pushed to github
**\<sgp>** Cool. Thanks for sharing
**\<cryptochangement>** ;)
**\<themonera>** Hi, TheMonera here... I'd be happy to help !
**\<sgp>** :)
**\<serhack>** Hello @themonera
**\<sgp>** I'm going to move back to the Coffee Chat discussion for time
**\<serhack>** cryptochangements: I wrote you on Telegram
**\<cryptochangement>** awesome! is it cool if i PM you on reddit? (or IRC if that works for you)?
**\<nevvton>** in case of additional help for designs I could also contribute..
**\<serhack>** Great, there are a Lot of designers
**\<sgp>** Last Saturday, we hosted the first Monero Coffee Chat. I want to speak for a few minutes about how it went.
**\<sgp>** You can see the GitHub issue here: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/123
**\<sgp>** You can see the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKgnjqSXpA
**\<monerobux>** [ Monero Coffee Chat - 2017.10.07 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp>** The livestreaming did not work as expected. We used Jitsi instead of Hangouts to address several privacy concerns. Jitsi is open-source and has many of the same features as Hangouts, except for some reason I could not get the livestreaming function to work properly the day of the event.
**\<sgp>** I had previously tested it earlier with just two members and it worked.
**\<sgp>** In desperation, I quickly set up OBS with the default settings and did a very simple screen-capture. Apparently, the default quality is around 720p, and I should have tweaked with the audio settings more if I had more time. Nevertheless, we have a recording of the event, which in my opinion is better than no recording.
**\<sgp>** I have continued tweaking the OBS settings so we should have much better quality next time.
**\<sgp>** We simply invited those who wanted to watch to the Jitsi room at the time, which worked fine for this meeting, but I have concerns for the future. There is no way to permanently mute people (they can unmute), and there is no way to ban people. They can just rejoin. I’m afraid that someone down the line will ruin this for everyone.
**\<sgp>** Thus, I will continue working to find a way to reliably livestream the event to YouTube. People can comment there without disrupting the conversation.
**\<sgp>** I would like to thank those who participated in the first event. Endogenic, erciccione, violentlypeaceful, john\_alan, rehrar, ArticMine, and others I may have forgotten. If you would like to be involved in the next one, please message me and I will keep you in mind.
**\<sgp>** The next Monero Coffee Chat is tentatively on 4 November https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/127
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: Anyway to download the coffee chat so we don't have to use Youtube?
**\<sgp>** Yeah, I can send you the file if you want
**\<sgp>** PM me with what medium you prefer
**\<sgp>** Now I invite anyone who would like to speak about the event. Did everyone enjoy it? Is there anything we should do differently?
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: Send a video file via email? You mean post it somewhere and send the link right?
**\<sgp>** @msvb-lab it won't fit as an attachment, but I can upload it somewhere else if you want
**\<sgp>** Does anyone have any thoughts about the event itself?
**\<ErCiccione>** was very nice and i think has a great potential. as sgp said, it need some technical adjustment, but beside that, was very enjoyable. looking forward for the next one
**\<serhack>** Great Erciccione, I am good at developing but I am not good at speaking english
**\<serhack>** Make italian community great (again?)
**\<nevvton>** :)
**\<sgp>** Well if anyone has any feedback, please let me know. I'm happy to make changes
**\<sgp>** 5. Monero meetups
**\<ErCiccione>** hehehe @serhack, if we can find an easy way i will be happy to translate for you if you wish. My spoken english is not great but hey..:D
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: There are a couple events coming up (as we may talk about later) and it's common to have live coffee chat like sessions on site. Do you think we should try that?
**\<sgp>** There's an increasing chance every day that there's a Monero community near you.
**\<sgp>** @msvb-lab good idea, we can coordinate that with the event organizers
**\<sgp>** My group Crypto@UMN is hosting a Monero meetup on 20 October in Minneapolis. This event is open to students and the wider community. Free food and drinks will be provided. More details here: https://gopherlink.umn.edu/event/1581653
**\<sgp>** A stream of Justin Smith’s talk at Bitcoin Munich should be posted shortly, according to the event organizers. Here are some photos: https://secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/4/2/b/highres_465273835.jpeg https://secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/4/2/e/highres_465273838.jpeg
**\<sgp>** RIAT in Vienna would like to discuss some exciting updates for December. I just got an email from them about an hour ago with lots of exciting stuff!
**\<sgp>** \^nevvton
**\<nevvton>** hi everyone!!
**\<nevvton>** so yeah.. as Matthias introduced me, I am part of riat in Vienna...
**\<nevvton>** for those who haven't heard of me, I am working on research topics along with the institute and together with parasew organise all kinds of community meetups
**\<nevvton>** for which monero is one of them..
**\<nevvton>** so for our current wrap up, as we have been closely working with
**\<nevvton>** we are getting closer to finishing up our this years attendance at 34C3 - CCC event in leipzig
**\<nevvton>** so a lot of community talk to mainly their organisers took place and things went quiet well sofa, as one unofficially can announce that it seems to be happening!!
**\<msvb-lab>** In case anyone is interested in the 34C3 event, the first round of tickets go on sale 19 October.
**\<nevvton>** with regard to the CCC we worked out - as an extension to the former "crypto table" more generell version (see CCC assemblies for more detail) -- to put it in a more broader sense..
**\<sgp>** info about the 34c3 https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2017/34C3-in-leipzig
**\<nevvton>** so we aim for a general crypto "atmosphere" which will host kind of like in a relaxed - dedicated area monero community members as well as (for now) bitcoin assembly as well..
**\<nevvton>** the thing about CCC is, that their organisers are very politically active and thus concerned about crypto-currencies in general. for which it needs some sensible ways and communication for them to accept direct
**\<nevvton>** community efforts and support these kind of ideas
**\<nevvton>** -- but as we've been getting a hold of two of their old time initiators explaining the concept and that -- as along with the community efforts monero as a movement -- community will be representing and discussing latest efforts in the whole ecosphere of crypto related concepts.. bringing everyonee together
**\<nevvton>** they found an interest (not feeling instrumntalized in that sense) as- many companies are applying -- and it is hard for them to distinguish
**\<nevvton>** so -- things are evolving.. parasew at some later stage will inform you a bit more about the actual things that we can make use of at the conference.
**\<nevvton>** but so far as I am informed. we will be given a dedicated space, also a lot of fun is pre-programmed, as we have friendly people involved in Leipzig (this years CCC location), Germany - who will help and contribute the whole thing
**\<nevvton>** -- but so far , it seems there will be a crypto track, where a couple of interesting topics can be covered from our community on stage, of course we can do workshops, etc
**\<nevvton>** in means of accommodation, we are already trying to organise spaces so that we will be accommodated as well as have a separate location for a party of ourselves if needed..
**\<nevvton>** -- second thing is actually prior to the CCC
**\<nevvton>** so as RIAT has been hosting various meet ups, even samsunggalaxyplayer held one of his famous :) meet ups in our space in vienna
**\<nevvton>** -- we are planning a monero month in september
**\<sgp>** :p
**\<nevvton>** -- so a bit of a historic brief.
**\<msvb-lab>** Whoever doesn't know what the *** this is about, CCC events are generally quite cool, like Defcon. The 34C3 is their yearly congress attracting about 10-15k folks (kids too) and takes place between the end of year holidays.
**\<nevvton>** http:/www.riat.at for those interested to read
**\<msvb-lab>** nevvton: I think you mean to write 'we are planning a monero month in December' right?
**\<nevvton>** we are running a research residency - where Riat invites various crypto related people to come to Vienna in order to have lectures,
**\<nevvton>** -- yes! sryy
**\<nevvton>** ... research residency - where people are invited along with all different kind of in depth technologies, so --\> research that work on the very heart of technology.
**\<nevvton>** we also care for accommodation at that time.. and parasew and I had in mind for a long time , as we're both very much in love with monero
**\<nevvton>** to turn the month of December into a focus month for monero..
**\<nevvton>** wrapping up things that all of us took efforts upon, discuss future (upcoming) trends etc.. as to say we would like people to come to vienna
**\<nevvton>** and turn it into a session, from 13th to 17th - with talks, lectures, workshops...
**\<serhack>** We should do something in christmas
**\<serhack>** For Monero
**\<rehrar>** secret santa
**\<sgp>** I'm glad to hear Monero will be well-represented at the 34C3. Feel free to ask at any time for what you need, even outside meeting time.
**\<nevvton>** generally also this time could be used In order to prepare CCC related topics .. so it might be a good opportunity to stop by in advance
**\<serhack>** Serhack is thinking
**\<nevvton>** thank you
**\<nevvton>** so in case of any questions with that regards.. we are very much open to any hints and help.. along with that...
**\<nevvton>** (puh' my fingers..)
**\<msvb-lab>** nevvton: Some folks travelling from far need a lot of time before the 13-17 meeting to decide.
**\<nevvton>** generally -- just for more adequate info -- of course we can help finding a cheap fare to host people here.. (we have some community run beds) so -- in order to not have expenses explode..
**\<msvb-lab>** Maybe we should already promote the 'Monero December' meeting(s) on events.getmonero.org or whatever that page is.
**\<nevvton>** yes..
**\<nevvton>** thats what parasew also encouraged.. would be great to have an update on the event site
**\<msvb-lab>** I'm already planning on being there and will buy my train ticket once December comes online at the ticket office.
**\<msvb-lab>** 13-17 that is...
**\<nevvton>** -- also in means of graphics for CCC : I am already working on it..
**\<cryptochangement>** isnt there an events page on getmonero that could use some love anyways?
**\<rehrar>** scroll up
**\<nevvton>** if anyone would want to get earlier in December or stay longer (for instance until CCC) it is also possible...
**\<msvb-lab>** nevvton: Write a bug on the Github monero-project/monero-site bug tracker to insert the text you want, like describing how to get there and so on.
**\<nevvton>** okay.. thats a great idea!!
**\<msvb-lab>** Then we can see about doing a coffee table chat live on site and stuff like that...
**\<nevvton>** yes
**\<sgp>** @nevvton this all sounds great, and we will be happy to work with you to make these efforts a success
**\<nevvton>** thank you.. me and parasew will get back to you with some more detailed infos as soon as everythign is more settled..
**\<sgp>** I'm going to spend the last few minutes covering the last meeting item, but of course feel free to continue discussions after the meeting
**\<nevvton>** (next week or so)
**\<sgp>** This is all very exciting. Thanks for your efforts
**\<sgp>** Last item: 6. Monero Meetup Kit
**\<sgp>** Just a brief update. Though my FFS has not yet moved on, I have recently purchased all the materials for the Monero Meetup Kit https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/88374/monero-meetup-kit
**\<sgp>** Each kit will include 100 Monero logo stickers, 50 webcam covers with the Monero logo, about 2 each of various other community-designed stickers, 50 flyers, and $20 in activity paper wallets.
**\<sgp>** The webcam covers are the most expensive part of the kit, but I think they are worth the cost. Here is how they will look: https://i.imgur.com/zu0rDE2.png
**\<sgp>** I will create an application for groups who would like a free kit. Expect this around the end of this month, when the webcam covers come in. To simplify things, I prefer to only ship in the US. I can do something later if this is a success
**\<ErCiccione>** very nice!
**\<cryptochangement>** personally i love the idea of monero webcam covers. it really highlights that monero is about PRIVACY
**\<sgp>** Jumping to #8 so we can let people on a tight schedule go:
**\<sgp>** 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp>** The next meeting will two weeks from today on 28 October at 17:00 UTC. It will be the Saturday before the dev meetings. This meeting time seems to work out for most people.
**\<cryptochangement>** same as always :p
**\<sgp>** So that's it for the formal meeting everyone. Thanks for all the updates and discussions!
**\<sgp>** Back to #7: open ideas time
**\<sgp>** For those who still have things to discuss
**\<ErCiccione>** i have one idea
**\<sgp>** go ahead
**\<ErCiccione>** it started again the 'hacktoberfest'. This project aim to get people to contribute to open source projects in the month of October.
**\<ErCiccione>** more info:https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/
**\<ErCiccione>** Basically it's enough to put the label 'hacktoberfest' to issues in github, and they will be listed on the website, where developers from all over the world can see them and contribute.
**\<ErCiccione>** This can be very useful for monero, especially for easy/not important issues that might catch somebody's interest. It's enough to put the label on some issues and we might see some developers working on it.Is this interesting? should we propose it to our developers?
**\<sgp>** I will have to take a look at this
**\<sgp>** We should take advantage of it if we can
**\<cryptochangement>** more devs getting involved is always good
**\<msvb-lab>** Isn't it a bit too late? Very good idea though.
**\<sgp>** @nevvton I cannot come in person between the 13-17 because of finals, but I may be able to come after Christmas, or I can speak over videoconference between the 13-17
**\<nevvton>** yes.. we definatley are open to video streams during that time..
**\<nevvton>** also after Christmas you're very much invited to come over..
**\<ErCiccione>** yes, i'm talking about it here because i find it out yesterday and seems very cool, but maybe somebody has some reason to oppose to it. msvb-lab: yes maybe for bigger issues, but might be usefull for those annoying issues that just take time or somebody dedicated to them
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: How about the first week of December?
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: Can you go to Wien then?
**\<nevvton>** I'll coordinate things with parasew but as far as I can see for now it looks great that everyone will get supported in having a flat, etc.
**\<nevvton>** would be also a good time coming the prior week
**\<msvb-lab>** ErCiccione: We might still get lucky with it, and if not it's important enough to put in some calendar of sorts, in order to attack the problem early next year. Like in August or September. What do you think?
**\<msvb-lab>** Can Github do a calendar based notification or something?
**\<nevvton>** but obviously if you'd be coming for CCC as well it makes more sense , probably to come after
**\<sgp>** @msvb-lab unlikely
**\<msvb-lab>** nevvton: Then we'll have to do without sgp, bummer. Maybe 34C3 though, as you say.
**\<rehrar>** So about that Secret Santa?
**\<nevvton>** I think it might be a good idea to come up with a doodle or smthg. if more people could come right before we could find out what dates suites best..
**\<nevvton>** :)
**\<msvb-lab>** serhack: Are you planning to come to Vienna in December?
**\<ErCiccione>** msvb-lab: that's a good idea, i will write about this in #monero-dev let's see what they think about it, but we should definitely save the date for next year
**\<msvb-lab>** We should have this kind of calendar to be onboard Google Summer of Code too, without forgetting and passing it up.
**\<sgp>** @rehrar will enough people be ok giving away their addresses?
**\<rehrar>** even if it's just you and me sgp \<3
**\<ErCiccione>** i remember a community member set up a calendar few months ago, would be nice to have something like that integrated on the website, maybe to resuscitate the 'events' page
**\<msvb-lab>** The welcome package is quite nice, what about more than one variant? Like different proportions of items in the package?
**\<sgp>** For practical reasons it may be best if someone else hosted a good resource like that
**\<sgp>** It would be annoying if it took more than a few days to update an event
**\<ErCiccione>** sgp: that's a good point
**\<cryptochangement>** true...
**\<nevvton>** hey everybody.. I think I have to leave for now.. but spread the word.. and we'll get back to you very soon in time!!
**\<nevvton>** looking forward seeing you in Vienna
**\<nevvton>** and CCC of course
**\<serhack>** msvb-lab: I don't know, I'm planning some Holiday with my friends
**\<msvb-lab>** Would be great to see you there in Vienna on 13-17 December. Maybe you can bring your friends too? That's what I'm doing.
**\<serhack>** I would like to come to Vienna msvb-lab. But I don't know
**\<msvb-lab>** serhack: Would be great to hang and hack, don't forget that Austrian christmas markets are really enjoyable and Vienna is a great city.
**\<msvb-lab>** Excellent hackerspace there as well, and I'm sure nevvton and parasew are nice hosts.
**\<selsta>** msvb-lab: what’s in Vienna?
**\<msvb-lab>** selsta: The official announcement will appear on getmonero.org/community/events/
**\<msvb-lab>** It is a event being put on by users nevvton and parasew and hosted by RIAT.
**\<selsta>** msvb-lab: I live there :p
**\<msvb-lab>** Kind of a 'Monero December' month long focus session.
**\<msvb-lab>** selsta: It's not at metalab as far as I know.
**\<msvb-lab>** Probably someplace in a university or research institute, and I hope this get's cleared up once they advertise on the events page.
**\<msvb-lab>** selsta: Are you on board, if we have meetings on the weekend 15-17 December?
**\<msvb-lab>** That just means eating pizza together and every once in a while making some plan or have a nice argument about crypto.
**\<msvb-lab>** Watch a film, go to metalab, christmas market, hangout, then repeat.
**\<selsta>** maybe I’ll look there, dunno I’ve never been to such an event
**\<msvb-lab>** The quality of the event probably depends on what each of us do and bring on our own. I doubt it will be well organized because nobody wants a fixed agenda in December when it's vacation time (almost.)
**\<msvb-lab>** So especially if you're a local, I would encourage you to just swing by and hang out.
**\<msvb-lab>** In order to know what we're up to, keep in touch via email and IRC, as well as glancing at the events page.
**\<selsta>** ok thanks
**\<msvb-lab>** I'm assuming something will be posted at the metalab as well, not sure if you go there often.
**\<selsta>** not really into the ”hacker“ culture here
**\<selsta>** so I’ve only heard about metalab
**\<selsta>** never been there
**\<msvb-lab>** You need to check it out, it's quite a relaxing place with nice people and cool machines.

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---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-10-22
summary: Discussion of open PRs and issues, MoneroIdent, Kovri & TOR, v0.11.0.1 (point) release, dedicated Monero hardware wallet, and miscellaneous
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*October 22nd, 2017*
# Overview
An overview can be found on [MoneroBase](https://monerobase.com/wiki/DevMeeting_2017-10-22).
# Logs
**\<rehrar>** Comma use is everything here.
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\* fluffypony** fires up meeting issue
**\<fluffypony>** 1. Greetings
**\<fluffypony>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<fluffypony>** 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<fluffypony>** 4. Any additional meeting items
**\<fluffypony>** 5. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<surae>** howdy!
**\<fluffypony>** and an additional point that I guess we can put in between 3 and 4: "Should regular hardware development reporting and discussion be part of #monero-dev (biweekly meetings), #monero-community (biweekly meetings), or something else?"
**\<msvb-lab>** Hello.
**\<rbrunner>** Grüezi mitenand
**\<rehrar>** I thought that could fall under 4., sorry
**\<ArticMine>** hi
**\<hyc>** hi
**\<iDunk>** Hi.
**\<endogenic>** Hi fluffypony!
**\<rehrar>** hi endogenic
**\<Jaquee>** hey
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo / hyc / luigi1111 you guys around?
**\<hyc>** nope
**\<moneromooo>** I'm here
**\<endogenic>** o/ rehrar
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** so moving on to 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<fluffypony>** loads of merges
**\<fluffypony>** the big ones are lightweight wallet API support
**\<fluffypony>** and subaddresses
**\<endogenic>** Omg
**\<surae>** at MRL, i wrote up a prototype for the spectre blockchain algorithm. i'm pushing it to my github later today. it is functional, but can be made prettier and more efficient, but it's pretty much ready for stress testing so we can really see whether it's a waste of energy or not
**\<fluffypony>** we also have a number of PRs going into the 0.11 branch, specifically: 2478, 2493, 2514, 2632, 2639, 2654
**\<fluffypony>** and then we'll tag and release 0.11.1
**\<moneromooo>** yay ^\_^
**\<hyc>** :D
**\<surae>** the research-lab project has a PR waiting to be merged from my github on a similar note
**\<fluffypony>** surae: ok cool I'll merge it now
**\<hyc>** that spectre stuff sounds great
**\<rehrar>** link to spectre stuff?
**\<surae>** hyc they just roll with this idea of having 10 blocks a second, it's nutters
**\<surae>** https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1159.pdf
**\<rehrar>** thanks
**\<surae>** zooko mentioned it to me, btw. :P gotta give credit where credit is due
**\<fluffypony>** ok moving on to 3
**\<fluffypony>** 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<hyc>** is the set of patches for 11.0.1 pretty well settled?
**\<fluffypony>** unless there are some others beyond that list
**\<moneromooo>** I just cherry picked the OpenBSD one earlier, but it's low impact.
**\<fluffypony>** I'll add that to the list
**\<fluffypony>** ok so then I'd like to bring up the latest Verge FUD for discussion
**\<fluffypony>** for those that haven't seen it
**\<fluffypony>** https://twitter.com/moneroident
**\<fluffypony>** https://dotnetrussell.com/index.php/2017/10/21/locating-monero-users-via-transaction-broadcasts/
**\<fluffypony>** https://github.com/DotNetRussell/MoneroUserScraper
**\<fluffypony>** it's literally just netstat
**\<moneromooo>** It'd be easier to just run print\_cn or print\_pl.
**\<fluffypony>** and then it excludes some nodes that he decided are "server nodes" (whatever that means)
**\<hyc>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: too sophisticated
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<endogenic>** Lol
**\<fluffypony>** that said, I have received several messages from people who are quite concerned that Monero is not private
**\<surae>** well
**\<fluffypony>** oh - there's also this fun article: https://bitsonline.com/monero-exploit-threatens-privacy/
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<surae>** i haven't seen these latest criticisms at all yet
**\<surae>** but i have to ask
**\<rbrunner>** The "fun article" is really bad
**\<surae>** what is our policy going to be for writing responses to criticisms?
**\<surae>** because
**\<surae>** consider the miller and kumar papers, right? long papers. writing responses takes a long time...
**\<pigeons>** DoS by stupid claims
**\<endogenic>** rbrunner: looks more like a hit piece
**\<fluffypony>** the anonymint post is even longer, and we largely ignored it
**\<fluffypony>** because it was a massive waste of time
**\<saddam>** If you don't want to be on his "list", just leave your monerod running 24/7
**\<moneromooo>** I say ignore the obvious bullshit. People gonna pump and dump anyway.
**\<surae>** not all their criticisms are false (although a lot are outdated), but my point is this: if someone writes a 1000 word article claiming something about monero's privacy, it will in general take 9000 words to "debunk" the false parts and explain why the true parts are either part of the design or already on our roadmap for improvement
**\<endogenic>** Arent there other cases of having published this data anyway? Like monero node maps
**\<hyc>** 'The amount of energy required to dispel bullshit is an order of magnitude greater than that required to propagate it'.
**\<hyc>** 1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
**\<vtnerd>** wow, that article is really dumb
**\<surae>** hyc ha, i was close with a factor of 9
**\<endogenic>** So alternative to refutation is be like yeah get with the times
**\<surae>** i liked the monero challenge thing
**\<surae>** i *love* that idea
**\<gingeropolous>** how close is i2p?
**\<gingeropolous>** er, kovri
**\<fluffypony>** gingeropolous: still a little ways away - but we'd still need to refute this criticism even if it was in place
**\<endogenic>** Also want to know
**\<endogenic>** gingeropolous:
**\<fluffypony>** because aiui the way that Verge works is that it's only Tor or i2p
**\<fluffypony>** which is open to isolation and Sybil attacks, but they don't care about that
**\<moneromooo>** I'm not sure how this is complicated. If you want your IP to be hidden, use Tor. Like everyone else.
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: in the same way that ZCash can say "if you want your transaction to be hidden use shielded addresses"
**\<ArticMine>** Kovri will fix all of this anyway
**\<pigeons>** there are people that try to connect to as many nodes as possible and record which transactions they first see relayed from those nodes, but that's not new
**\<moneromooo>** Well, that is true, no ?
**\<gingeropolous>** i mean, the only response is to explain how blockchains and the internet works
**\<fluffypony>** yes - but if it's not the default mode then it's not worth talking about
**\<moneromooo>** OK. Then we're not anonymous, and we'll be once kovri, done.
**\<moneromooo>** Much easier than dealing with the bullshit ^\_^
**\<surae>** fluffypony "we'd still need to refute this criticism" \<--- i totally disagree. this is not only a known issue, we are building kovri around solving it
**\<pigeons>** if people were surprised by this its good they are aware of it
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: what are your thoughts on us spending some time building out the mixnet stuff, and bundling Tor until Kovri is ready?
**\<fluffypony>** surae: their netstat bot would continue to publish node IPs and they'd continue to push that agenda
**\<endogenic>** Surae: arent those two facts what makes refutation possible? :p
**\<endogenic>** Make
**\<moneromooo>** fluffypony: is that takes time, I'm against it. It's just wasting time for something which wasn't in good faith to begin with.
**\<surae>** fluffypony: what refutation would get them to stop publishing node IPs?
**\<moneromooo>** Or, at least, I won't waste my own time on it.
**\<rehrar>** The only valid criticsm I think they have (but correct me if I'm wrong) is that in a country where Monero is 100% outlawed, the government could see an IP address connecting to the Monero network (can't see if/when transactions are sent though), and that person could get in trouble. But that's the only information they have, no?
**\<Yohkii>** Just make a bot that does the same to verge, including where transactions come and go
**\<Yohkii>** less effort
**\<rbrunner>** Wouldn't they happily go on and publish Tor IP's anyway, people would not know these
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: we have to build out the ipv4 / mixnet stuff anyway, we'd just be plugging Tor in instead of Kovri till Kovri is ready, so it's 95% useful work, 5% effort that will be replaced later
**\<surae>** fluffypony: oh your recommended tactic here, then, is to first push tor until kovri is ready?
**\<fluffypony>** surae: none - but a published refutation would allow us to point people to it - the getmonero.org post responding to the Miller paper is my go-to when people ask about it
**\<fluffypony>** surae: yes that's what I was thinking
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I can write a post fwiw
**\<moneromooo>** OK, if it's shared stuff then that's good.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** But would probably need some help on the really technical stuff
**\<rbrunner>** Is it even technical? Internet 1x1: IPs!
**\<gingeropolous>** im kinda confused - our proposed kovri implementation was gonna keep blocks on clearnet anyway, so this "attack" would still be able to "identify" monero users
**\<moneromooo>** AIUI, it can do both.
**\<gingeropolous>** are we just gonna switch too 100% kobri, all the time?
**\<moneromooo>** Well, it will be able to do both :)
**\<gingeropolous>** right. but the bandwidth.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** gingeropolous: There was supposed to be i2p only | i2p/ip | ip only
**\<fluffypony>** gingeropolous: yes that's what I was saying to surae
**\<dEBRUYNE>** iirc
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Also, iirc if you push blocks over i2p you might incur latency issues, which increases the probability of an orphan
**\<fluffypony>** yes
**\<pigeons>** which transactions came from which nodes/ips affects privacy more than knowing you run monero. if you relayed a block first, yeah it could make your pool a traget, but there are other mitigations for that
**\<moneromooo>** Just post the URL in #monero
**\<rbrunner>** I have a hunch the Verge people will use the log of this meeting to show that "Monero devs are in panic"...
**\<fluffypony>** rbrunner: lol
**\<endogenic>** Is this issue within sarang’s wheelhouse? I know he was looking into working on kovri
**\<gingeropolous>** pigeons, yeah I get that. but this "criticism" doesn't even address that.
**\<gingeropolous>** its just ermagerd ips
**\<pigeons>** gingeropolous: well that isnt interesting
**\<fluffypony>** gingeropolous: great summary
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** ok well we'll wait for anonimal to comment on it, and we can go from there
**\<gingeropolous>** i know. but ppl have tried to explain the cost of actual sybil using the public ips and trying to track txs with this "weakness"
**\<fluffypony>** let's move on to 3. b.
**\<fluffypony>** Should regular hardware development reporting and discussion be part of #monero-dev (biweekly meetings), #monero-community (biweekly meetings), or something else?
**\<msvb-lab>** There are some good reasons that hardware development progress reports and discussion should be moved from the biweekly #monero-dev schedule (where the accepted forum proposal mandates.)
**\<msvb-lab>** So unless anyone strongly objects, it's gone from now on and will become part of either (1) #monero-community meetings or (2) #monero-hardware meetings.
**\<msvb-lab>** Whoever wants to know if it will be (1) or (2) should attend next week's #community meeting which will decide, okay?
**\<moneromooo>** What's the difference between #monero-aparataro and #monero-hardware btw ?
**\<moneromooo>** Both seem empty.
**\<msvb-lab>** I created aparataro but then changed it to hardware.
**\<moneromooo>** Ah OK.
**\<msvb-lab>** ...since the IRC channel 'community' is english non esperanto.
**\<msvb-lab>** So I wanted to be consistent there.
**\<msvb-lab>** Speaking of esperanto, before the hardware story fades into the sunset, here's a new topic.
**\<msvb-lab>** We tried and failed to give RFC-HWALLET-1 an esperanto name, so will rename our repository 'Sekura' to rfchwallet, okay?
**\<msvb-lab>** github.com/monero-project/rfchwallet
**\<endogenic>** I enjoy naming. I’ll let you know later if i have some suggestions
**\<msvb-lab>** We need a person to handle surveying a number of related Monero groups in order to get a good name that doesn't conflict in any way.
**\<msvb-lab>** No person is able to take this role, so if it appears it will be much later after risk of failure drops.
**\<msvb-lab>** endogenic: Thanks
**\<msvb-lab>** 73.
**\<fluffypony>** ok endogenic is in charge of naming
**\<fluffypony>** Chief Naming Officer
**\<msvb-lab>** Ha.
**\<endogenic>** 👷
**\<hyc>** one of the hardest problems in CS. good man
**\<msvb-lab>** Report on a privacy conference CCC puts on which I did a workshop at today after the meeting finishes.
**\<msvb-lab>** There was Monero activity and considerable interest...
**\<endogenic>** Now we just need to let them in on kovri and...
**\<hyc>** next?
**\<endogenic>** I think monero-hardware would be a better venue
**\<endogenic>** For hardware specific mtgs
**\<endogenic>** Status updates propagate anyway
**\<msvb-lab>** endogenic: I'll let the #community folks know that's your opinion. They won't agree.
**\<endogenic>** And maybe i can figure out a way to give michael op :p
**\<endogenic>** Oh ok
**\<msvb-lab>** op? An operation?
**\<endogenic>** I guess all ffs mtgs now go in community lolol
**\<endogenic>** Op -> operator status
**\<msvb-lab>** Nice.
**\<msvb-lab>** Even better, I want business cards like fluffypony.
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** let's move on to 4. Any additional meeting items
**\<fluffypony>** anything up for discussion?
**\<moneromooo>** When are you releasing 0.11.0.1 ? Before tomorrowish ?
**\<rehrar>** luigi is site repo maintainer now right?
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: it'll be tomorrow - but I'll do the merges now and start building
**\<fluffypony>** rehrar: yes
**\<moneromooo>** OK, thanks.
**\<redfish>** regarding https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/2545#issuecomment-337374284
**\<redfish>** just wanted to put in a vote for db-safe to be the default during sync as well
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: thoughts? ^^
**\<redfish>** (i ended up running a node for months with a corrupt blockchain DB)
**\<rbrunner>** Is the speed difference known on a typical PC?
**\<hyc>** it'll beat most drives to shit. and be slow.
**\<redfish>** we can add to the readme in the "Running monerod" section, that "you have an option to speed up, if you can be confident that the node will not fail while synching"
**\<hyc>** I mean, most consumer storage devices will probably see premature death.
**\<rbrunner>** Death by Monero :)
**\<redfish>** hyc: why? it won't matter after sync, and sync is temporary
**\<hyc>** ?
**\<redfish>** didn't you say daemon is in db-safe mode after sync completes, already.
**\<hyc>** yes
**\<redfish>** so, why would increasing the load on the disk during the hours/few days of syncing make that big of a difference on the disk lifetime?
**\<hyc>** during normal operation whenyou're already sync'd, you're getting 1 new data item per 2 minutes.
**\<redfish>** (btw, sidenote: with slow disks, despite there being so little new data, it spends 90% of those 2 minutes reading)
**\<gingeropolous>** hrm... perhaps we should make kovri the default network interface when it is ready. The only nodes that really could be affected by delays are pools. We should be private by default. If a pool wants to get gains by running over clearnet, they can run a flag. A regular user isn't affected if they are 2-4 minutes behind the current state.
**\<redfish>** my disks right now are so slow, that the node actually can't keep up. (Disk usage is continuous, monerod in D state continously)
**\<redfish>** but this is sidetracking. I'm still not clear on hyc's point about db-safe during sync being a disk killer.
**\<hyc>** if you had more RAM it woukd have more cached, and less read load
**\<redfish>** yeah, there's only 2GB, of which only ~1GB is free for the caching...
**\<hyc>** but large number of IOs spread over 2 minutes is gentler than spit out as fast as possible
**\<hyc>** SSDs need time for background wear-leveling to do its thing
**\<fluffypony>** let's wind it down and continue this discussion after the meeting
**\<redfish>** are you referring to operation after sync or during sync?
**\<hyc>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** is everyone happy with Nov 5th as the next meeting date ?
**\<hyc>** sure
**\<fluffypony>** ok cool - meeting over