monero-site/_posts/2018-03-03-logs-for-the-Community-meeting-held-on-2018-03-03.md
el00ruobuob ca61c34564
Meeting logs update:
+ dev diaries tag added to all backlog
+ MRL 7/29, 8/5, 8/20, 8/26, 9/2
+ Dev 8/11, 8/25
+ Community 8/3, 8/17, 8/31
+ tini2p 8/8, 8/22, 9/5
2019-09-06 17:41:08 +02:00

248 lines
No EOL
21 KiB
Markdown
Raw Blame History

This file contains ambiguous Unicode characters

This file contains Unicode characters that might be confused with other characters. If you think that this is intentional, you can safely ignore this warning. Use the Escape button to reveal them.

---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2018-03-03
summary: Community highlights, Forum Funding System updates, RFC-HWALLET-1, Localization workgroup, Bulletproof audit discussion, MoneroV discussion, and miscellaneous
tags: [dev diaries, community, crypto]
author: el00ruobuob / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting!
**\<sgp\_>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/186
**\<sgp\_>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_>** 1. Greetings
**\<serhack>** Hello!
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** Hi
**\<msvb-loc>** Hello
**\<sgp\_>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_>** XMR.RU has translated many important articles into Russian: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/81owe8/xmrrureport_february/
**\<monerobux>** [REDDIT] XMR.RU-report (February) (self.Monero) | 8 points (91.0%) | 4 comments | Posted by TheFuzzStone | Created at 2018-03-03 - 09:06:46
**\<sgp\_>** The Ledger team posted their latest update a little over a week ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7zez0g/ledger_hardware_wallet_monero_integration_some/
**\<monerobux>** [REDDIT] Ledger Hardware Wallet - Monero integration : some news #7 (self.Monero) | 368 points (96.0%) | 56 comments | Posted by cslashm | Created at 2018-02-22 - 13:45:50
**\<sgp\_>** There is an important Core Team announcement. binaryFate will replace tacotime as a Core Team member: https://getmonero.org/2018/03/01/core-team-announcement.html
**\<sgp\_>** Here is a discussion regarding the bulletproof audit request: https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/89993/bulletproofs-audit
**\<sgp\_>** The date of the hardfork is still not set. There will developer meetings every Sunday until the hardfork, including tomorrow.
**\<sgp\_>** Does anyone else have any updates I missed?
**\<sgp\_>** (other than FFS ones of course)
**\<rehrar>** you didn't think I'd miss this meeting
**\<serhack>** sgp_ : https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7zet99/serhack_updates/
**\<monerobux>** [REDDIT] SerHack updates (self.Monero) | 85 points (99.0%) | 38 comments | Posted by serhack | Created at 2018-02-22 - 13:19:02
**\<sgp\_>** How's Mastering Monero coming along serhack?
**\<serhack>** The cover : https://i.imgur.com/woJmssA.jpg I think I must mark the help from the community members
**\<serhack>** Anyway I'm going very good at writing, some users (cryptochangements, 4matter, sarang .. ) helped me with solid feedbacks
**\<serhack>** At the moment, there is a little draft: https://masteringmonero.com/book/monero.pdf :) It's not finished of course
**\<sgp\_>** That's great to hear! Are you still pushing the latest updates to Taiga?
**\<serhack>** I am going to abandon the Taiga Wiki because I think it's better to have a github repo , anyway some contents will remain to Taiga :)
**\<serhack>** I am doing all best in order to have both Taiga and Github
**\<sgp\_>** Just skimmed it (EXTREMELY quickly of course) and it's looking awesome! A lot has changed since the last time I checked
**\<msvb-loc>** The book looks very good, well organized and comprehensive.
**\<sgp\_>** It looks like a great tool people can use to learn more about Monero. Great job!
**\<serhack>** yes, I think it's about 60% . I would like to mark I don't want to take all credits.
**\<serhack>** This community is awesome because we have awesome users!
**\<serhack>** Thank you guys!
**\<sgp\_>** :)
**\<sgp\_>** Anyone else have any news?
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** thanks for this serhack
**\<rehrar>** Yeah, I do.
**\<sgp\_>** Go ahead rehrar
**\<rehrar>** For those who don't know, I've been working on a thingy to teach the community about open source, with the goal being that the open source vision really sets the stage for the Monero vision
**\<rehrar>** and it's hard to 'get' one without understanding the other
**\<rehrar>** The past week or so I've directed anyone who would listen to this pad: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/thegoodxmrpad
**\<rehrar>** where they can share their favorite open source projects
**\<rehrar>** A good list has been compiled so far, although it's only scratched the surface.
**\<rehrar>** I'm ready to do a launch on the initiative, and will be making a post today.
**\<sgp\_>** Great! I look forward to it
**\<rehrar>** I'll probably be holding a livestreamed mini-conference before the weekend is over for anyone who wants to come
**\<rehrar>** just talk about open source and chill
**\<sgp\_>** We mentioned earlier when you first introduced this initiative that it's important for people to understand the merits of open-source
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** I'd be sure to watch it ;)
**\<sgp\_>** All right, post it in r/MoneroCommunity and I'll hop on
**\<rehrar>** that's it for me
**\<sgp\_>** All right, time to move to FFS updates! If anyone has other items, we can get to them later
**\<sgp\_>** 3. FFS updates
**\<sgp\_>** There are several Forum Funding System updates.
**\<sgp\_>** a. RFC-HWALLET-1 project progress
**\<sgp\_>** @msvb-loc
**\<msvb-loc>** The latest prototype 'Prime Platine' design is a few hours from being finished.
**\<msvb-loc>** A board rendition is complete:
**\<msvb-loc>** taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-rfc-hwallet-1-implementation/
**\<msvb-loc>** It will go to press in a couple days and I hope to have PCBs in a week, then assemble them.
**\<msvb-loc>** Last week I visited the Embedded World (largest embedded hardware conference in the world) and spoke to manufacturers and IC chip vendors all day.
**\<msvb-loc>** The most important thing (since we otherwise have all bases covered) is to get a stable and high quality display (OLED) supplier, so that's what I was working on.
**\<msvb-loc>** Are there any questions about the state of Monero hardware? I have no more comments.
**\<sgp\_>** How hard do you think it will be to get an OLED supplier?
**\<rehrar>** You guys decided on a secure element?
**\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: Not too hard to get a supplier, it might mean we need to buy quantities or plan way ahead (since they can only deliver with 6 weeks lead time.)
**\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: We're still intent on trying for Microchip CEC1702 secure MCU, and if that fails a Nordic nRF52840.
**\<msvb-loc>** We will have Atmel secure elements on top of those things regardless.
**\<msvb-loc>** Last night I met with WolfSSL and a local hardware engineer. They are partnering with Infineon on their secure elements, but it's not a good deal. Very closed, secretive, and they don't like small (OSH) groups like ours.
**\<msvb-loc>** They are doing TPM.
**\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: What do you think, any suggestions or opinions about this?
**\<rehrar>** I don't have the expertise to have an opinion, but I remember it's been a point of great discussion on previous hardware meetings.
**\<rehrar>** So I thought I'd ask.
**\<msvb-loc>** I'm really shorting the story of course. I met with Samsung as well, because they now have low powered IoT modules with TPN and crypto inside, quite cheap. But that would divert our resources too much, because it's a radically different architecture.
**\<rehrar>** There's nothing to say that the first Kastelo schematic released needs to be the last ;)
**\<msvb-loc>** Ha, yes the schematic is here:
**\<msvb-loc>** https://taiga.getmonero.org/media/attachments/1/c/7/0/857dcae1517fe27c1988443ef7da48e2570af956d34ba7957f6b542c2a95/breakneck-sch.png
**\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: Thanks.
**\<sgp\_>** Thanks msvb-loc. Always interesting to see what's going on on the hardware side of things.
**\<sgp\_>** b. Localization workgroup Q&A
**\<sgp\_>** @erciccione_[m]
**\<sgp\_>** I've noticed that you have been very busy lately :)
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** that's me :)
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** yes a lot of new contributors, and that's extremely good
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** also, people started using Taiga for coordination within communities of translators and i'm very happy about that
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** i've no particular updates, except for the fact that my FFS proposal will expire on the 7th
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** i'm already writing another one hoping in the support of the community. it will be out tomorrow :)
**\<sgp\_>** Sweet, you already answered my question
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** anybody has questions?
**\<rehrar>** When Italian site? :D
**\<rehrar>** looking forward to a complete language
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** in the new FFS there will also be a resume of what have been achived durign this 3 months
**\<sgp\_>** Thanks erciccione. I look forward to reading it
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** rehrar: i hope soon, the PR is there and it's ready to be merged, but i've been doing a lot of support this week i couldn't dedicate much time to it
**\<rehrar>** cool
**\<sgp\_>** Does anyone else have a FFS update?
**\<rehrar>** I do
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** i hope i can push some more pages next week
**\<rehrar>** I've got an active FFS with Kovri that's ongoing.
**\<rehrar>** Unfortunately, on a personal level, February was a difficult and stressful time for me, and I completed about 15 out of 40 hours
**\<rehrar>** so obviously I will not accept any payment, and will instead accept for March since things have quieted down for me
**\<rehrar>** just an update for the community
**\<sgp\_>** Thanks for the update
**\<rehrar>** so yeah, Jan, Feb and March will simply become Jan, March, April
**\<sgp\_>** cool, makes sense
**\<sgp\_>** 4. Bulletproof audit discussion
**\<sgp\_>** Lets spend a little time discussing the bulletproof code audit proposal. As mentioned earlier, the proposal is here: https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/89993/bulletproofs-audit
**\<sgp\_>** MRLs overview and suggestions are here: https://github.com/b-g-goodell/research-lab/blob/master/audits/BP/README.pdf
**\<serhack>** yea :) rehrar
**\<sgp\_>** Does anyone have any feedback that sarang and surae can use as they prepare the FFS request to be moved to Funding Required?
**\<rehrar>** does suraeNoether or sarang have anything to say regarding this? :D
**\<sgp\_>** They're probably doing more important things
**\<sgp\_>** They just had another research paper dropped on their desk
**\<msvb-loc>** What does SoW stand for, Securing of Work?
xwerter6 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
**\<sgp\_>** msvb-loc, where do you see SoW?
**\<rehrar>** Scope of Work, I believe
**\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: SoW is the prefix to many of the bids on:
**\<msvb-loc>** https://github.com/b-g-goodell/research-lab/tree/master/audits/BP/
**\<sgp\_>** ah, I see now. see rehrar's answer
**\<sgp\_>** Anyway, I'm happy that the review of bulletproofs should be happening soon
**\<sgp\_>** If there are no further comments, I'll move on
**\<Randolf>** Hmm, SoW means Scope of Work and not Stake of Work? Hmm.
**\<Randolf>** I guess the computer industry is a bit of a victim of acronym overuse sometimes. :)
**\<sgp\_>** 5. MoneroV discussion
**\<sgp\_>** The community needs to stay vigilant for the upcoming MoneroV fork, which poses a threat on Monero. I have seen an increasing number of news articles that reference this fork without referencing any of the possible harms. I have also seen more people think that simply using a temporary wallet removes all the risk.
**\<sgp\_>** Lets spend some time recommending ways the community can address chain splits. How can we handle the social, community aspect of it?
**\<sgp\_>** ie: how can we effectively get the message across, even to those with no idea how Monero works?
**\<Randolf>** Is MoneroV specifically intended to cause harm to Monero? (Sort of like how Roger Ver created the BCash fork of Bitcoin and seems to be trying to destroy Bitcoin?)
**\<ArticMine>** We will need to provide the users with options and the long term effects
**\<sgp\_>** @Randolf it is most likely just someone trying to get rich quick, but who knows?
**\<Randolf>** sgp_: As seems to be the case with many forks.
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Your video on it I think helped a lot... but most people are too lazy to watch a 20 minute video smh
**\<Randolf>** Is this the first time that Monero has been forked?
**\<ArticMine>** I do not think MoneroV was deliberately designed to hurt Monero
**\<Randolf>** That's good, at least.
**\<ArticMine>** It is the first time we have an "air drop"
**\<serhack>** If sgp agreed with me , I could try to reach some users by writing a solid article in my blog.
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** No, it's just the first time people are trying to participate in a scammy airdrop
**\<sgp\_>** serhack sure, the more exposure the better
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** guys i have to go. Will catch you tomorrow
**\<serhack>** bye erciccione_[m]
**\<Randolf>** So, referring to it as "yet another fork" could be helpful.
**\<Randolf>** That way it keeps Monero in the "driver's seat" so-to-speak.
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Perhaps we could put something about it in the daily discussion thread on reddit? Yesterday I spent way too much time explaining to people that it's a scam and bad for their own privacy
**\<sgp\_>** I recommend writing a comprehensive guide on /r/xmrtrader that is stickied. But I would still like some feedback regarding what to include to best get the message across to those who think this is just another opportunity to make money
**\<ArticMine>** Yes but will that be enough? I mean XMR at 100,000 USD and scammy XMV at 0.5% market cap or 50 USD x10?
**\<ArticMine>** That would put MoneroV at a larger market cap than Monero today
**\<ArticMine>** This is the kind of long term risk that I have to be concerned about
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** I wanna know who is actually going to be buying these coins tho... literally everyone I have spoken to about it just wants to dump them
**\<sgp\_>** I think over 95% of people see this as an opportunity to dump
**\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: Dump what?
**\<ArticMine>** So I am in the camp of safely splitting of the XMV by using the same mixing on both chains
**\<sgp\_>** The XMV
**\<sgp\_>** In regards to ArticMine's comments, I have some news
**\<sgp\_>** Moneromooo and stoffu have been hard at work on a tool that could be used to mitigate the impact of hardforks. You can see my comment on the issue, where it provides three key features: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/3322
**\<Randolf>** As an end-user, if it's a hard-fork then I naturally see that as a benefit to me because it means that my holdings increase. The question becomes, do I keep my hard forked holdings, or do I sell them (e.g., for Monero or something else)?
**\<sgp\_>** Before you get overly excited that someone has created a tool, keep in mind this tool only works if many people use it. If only about 20% of people claiming their MoneroV use this sort of tool, then about 42% of those who use the tool will still have their transactions revealed immediately after the fork. This is still better than 100% of transactions. Furthermore, using a tool when some number of transactions exist after the fork will have significant benefits.
**\<ArticMine>** Yes I am very much aware of their work. It provides some very critical tools
**\<ArticMine>** To do what I am suggesting
**\<Randolf>** My perspective, as an end-user, is that Monero is the de facto base or fallback that I can always depend on.
**\<Randolf>** s/My/From my/
**\<monerobux>** Randolf meant to say: From my perspective, as an end-user, is that Monero is the de facto base or fallback that I can always depend on.
**\<sgp\_>** The problem is that, with ringsize 5, we need to get over 2/3 of MoneroV claimers to use a tool like this, at least initially
**\<ArticMine>** Ringsize will likely be a topic ant the dev meeting
**\<ArticMine>** at
**\<sgp\_>** For those using the tool to feel reasonably comfortable
**\<sgp\_>** Yeah, I'm taking about MoneroV though
**\<ArticMine>** But yes increasing ringsize is part of the mitigation
**\<sgp\_>** We can have forks in the future that advertise themsevles as "MoneroLight" with mandatory 0-mixin transactions
**\<sgp\_>** rendering tools like these useless
**\<sgp\_>** So yes, the best thing Monero can do (tool or not) is to increase its own ringsize. I advocated at the last meeting for 7
**\<ArticMine>** Actually such a 0 mixin fork does not pose a threat to the exixting chain
**\<ArticMine>** Since ti does not compromise prior outputs
**\<ArticMine>** it
**\<sgp\_>** ArticMine yes, because it reuses the same key image on both
**\<sgp\_>** thus the input is still compromised
**\<dEBRUYNE>** A 0 mixin fork would even be worse
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Because there aren't any mitigations you can use such as using the same ring
**\<sgp\_>** it's as if you sent a 0-mixin transaction in Monero directly
**\<ArticMine>** but only affects those who use the fork
**\<dEBRUYNE>** True
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Uh no
**\<dEBRUYNE>** wait
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Not if your output is used as decoy
**\<sgp\_>** Well, the inputs still impact the Moenro blockchain
**\<sgp\_>** yes debruyne
**\<sgp\_>** I can walk you through it later ArticMine if you want
**\<sgp\_>** For the sake of this meeting though, I just want to make people aware that this tool now exists, and that we can consider options to convince people to use something like this
**\<ArticMine>** Yes I see because they are exposed as real
**\<ArticMine>** or spent to be correct. So they cannot be used in the future
**\<ArticMine>** as decoys
**\<dEBRUYNE>** It would reduce the ring size with 1
**\<dEBRUYNE>** If they are used as decoy, because they are provably spent
**\<sgp\_>** If anyone would like to help me create posts telling uninformed people about MoneroV and what to do, I would really love your help. Send me a PM and we can get a workgroup together. Since this is a social problem, I'd rather not try and handle it myself
**\<sgp\_>** We don't really have much time left for open ideas time, but is there anythign else people want to add quickly?
**\<ArticMine>** Yes that is the issue. But for post fork txs one has to use only post fork mixins as a defense to such a 0 mixin air drop
**\<sgp\_>** ArticMine yes, that is one of the protections included in the tool
**\<sgp\_>** Which means the negative impact wears off very quickly fortunately
**\<msvb-loc>** Anyone have an idea of a stopgap service to run a website on kastelo.org or getkastelo.org?
**\<sgp\_>** Good question msvb-loc that I wish I had the answer to
**\<msvb-loc>** Is there something like Hotmail for websites, that allows an idiot to create a single page site in 5 minutes?
**\<rehrar>** what's stopgap?
**\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Until we can get a real website in 1-2 months.
**\<rehrar>** msvb-loc, you don't need an idiot to create a web page in 5 minutes
**\<rehrar>** I'm a web developer
**\<rehrar>** .............remember?
**\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Yes, and you are already doing twenty things.
**\<msvb-loc>** I know that.
**\<rehrar>** well make it 21
**\<sgp\_>** github bootstrap template?
**\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Then the problem is solved, thank you very very very much.
**\<rehrar>** I'll see if I can't get you a single page as a temp within the week
**\<rehrar>** make a Taiga thing with all the info you want to be on it
**\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Okay, I'll do that.
**\<sgp\_>** Any other last-minute thoughts? Now's your last chance
**\<sgp\_>** 7. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<rehrar>** Happy Valentine's Day!
**\<sgp\_>** The next community meeting will be two weeks from today on 17 March. The Coffee Chat will be next Saturday on 10 March.
**\<sgp\_>** 8. Conclusion
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** No open ideas?
**\<sgp\_>** Thats all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
**\<rehrar>** meeting 'officially' over
**\<rehrar>** but 'unofficial' open ideas time starts now
**\<sgp\_>** @cryptochangements we ran out of time, but I'm happy to still discuss them here
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Ok cool
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Someone mentioned on reddit the other day doing an AMA on r/IAmA to answer questions that people who might not really know that much about cryptocurrency might have. It could also be a chance to promote why we need financial privacy. Good idea? Bad idea?
**\<sgp\_>** Good idea imo
**\<sgp\_>** But we need to convince those at AMA why
**\<phx[m]>** I don't feel like Reddit is the right platform tbh
**\<sgp\_>** phx[m] I still think it would be more helpful than harmful
**\<sgp\_>** The interesting part will be who they would accept. They typically need to have some formal position afaik
**\<defterade>** I don't see an AMA producing high quality questions.
**\<defterade>** I think it will be met with a lot of uninformed skepticism and misinformation.
**\<defterade>** I can already see the highest upvoted comment being an essay moaning about energy consumption.
**\<defterade>** Followed by an attempt to explain the merits of PoW, which the average /r/IAMA vistor will not understand anyway.
**\<sgp\_>** I still think it's good to answer these questions