--- layout: post title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2018-03-03 summary: Community highlights, Forum Funding System updates, RFC-HWALLET-1, Localization workgroup, Bulletproof audit discussion, MoneroV discussion, and miscellaneous tags: [dev diaries, crypto] author: el00ruobuob / SamsungGalaxyPlayer --- # Logs **\<sgp\_>** 0. Introduction **\<sgp\_>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting! **\<sgp\_>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/186 **\<sgp\_>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. **\<sgp\_>** 1. Greetings **\<serhack>** Hello! **\<erciccione\_[m]>** Hi **\<msvb-loc>** Hello **\<sgp\_>** 2. Community highlights **\<sgp\_>** XMR.RU has translated many important articles into Russian: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/81owe8/xmrrureport_february/ **\<monerobux>** [REDDIT] XMR.RU-report (February) (self.Monero) | 8 points (91.0%) | 4 comments | Posted by TheFuzzStone | Created at 2018-03-03 - 09:06:46 **\<sgp\_>** The Ledger team posted their latest update a little over a week ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7zez0g/ledger_hardware_wallet_monero_integration_some/ **\<monerobux>** [REDDIT] Ledger Hardware Wallet - Monero integration : some news #7 (self.Monero) | 368 points (96.0%) | 56 comments | Posted by cslashm | Created at 2018-02-22 - 13:45:50 **\<sgp\_>** There is an important Core Team announcement. binaryFate will replace tacotime as a Core Team member: https://getmonero.org/2018/03/01/core-team-announcement.html **\<sgp\_>** Here is a discussion regarding the bulletproof audit request: https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/89993/bulletproofs-audit **\<sgp\_>** The date of the hardfork is still not set. There will developer meetings every Sunday until the hardfork, including tomorrow. **\<sgp\_>** Does anyone else have any updates I missed? **\<sgp\_>** (other than FFS ones of course) **\<rehrar>** you didn't think I'd miss this meeting **\<serhack>** sgp_ : https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7zet99/serhack_updates/ **\<monerobux>** [REDDIT] SerHack updates (self.Monero) | 85 points (99.0%) | 38 comments | Posted by serhack | Created at 2018-02-22 - 13:19:02 **\<sgp\_>** How's Mastering Monero coming along serhack? **\<serhack>** The cover : https://i.imgur.com/woJmssA.jpg I think I must mark the help from the community members **\<serhack>** Anyway I'm going very good at writing, some users (cryptochangements, 4matter, sarang .. ) helped me with solid feedbacks **\<serhack>** At the moment, there is a little draft: https://masteringmonero.com/book/monero.pdf :) It's not finished of course **\<sgp\_>** That's great to hear! Are you still pushing the latest updates to Taiga? **\<serhack>** I am going to abandon the Taiga Wiki because I think it's better to have a github repo , anyway some contents will remain to Taiga :) **\<serhack>** I am doing all best in order to have both Taiga and Github **\<sgp\_>** Just skimmed it (EXTREMELY quickly of course) and it's looking awesome! A lot has changed since the last time I checked **\<msvb-loc>** The book looks very good, well organized and comprehensive. **\<sgp\_>** It looks like a great tool people can use to learn more about Monero. Great job! **\<serhack>** yes, I think it's about 60% . I would like to mark I don't want to take all credits. **\<serhack>** This community is awesome because we have awesome users! **\<serhack>** Thank you guys! **\<sgp\_>** :) **\<sgp\_>** Anyone else have any news? **\<erciccione\_[m]>** thanks for this serhack **\<rehrar>** Yeah, I do. **\<sgp\_>** Go ahead rehrar **\<rehrar>** For those who don't know, I've been working on a thingy to teach the community about open source, with the goal being that the open source vision really sets the stage for the Monero vision **\<rehrar>** and it's hard to 'get' one without understanding the other **\<rehrar>** The past week or so I've directed anyone who would listen to this pad: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/thegoodxmrpad **\<rehrar>** where they can share their favorite open source projects **\<rehrar>** A good list has been compiled so far, although it's only scratched the surface. **\<rehrar>** I'm ready to do a launch on the initiative, and will be making a post today. **\<sgp\_>** Great! I look forward to it **\<rehrar>** I'll probably be holding a livestreamed mini-conference before the weekend is over for anyone who wants to come **\<rehrar>** just talk about open source and chill **\<sgp\_>** We mentioned earlier when you first introduced this initiative that it's important for people to understand the merits of open-source **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** I'd be sure to watch it ;) **\<sgp\_>** All right, post it in r/MoneroCommunity and I'll hop on **\<rehrar>** that's it for me **\<sgp\_>** All right, time to move to FFS updates! If anyone has other items, we can get to them later **\<sgp\_>** 3. FFS updates **\<sgp\_>** There are several Forum Funding System updates. **\<sgp\_>** a. RFC-HWALLET-1 project progress **\<sgp\_>** @msvb-loc **\<msvb-loc>** The latest prototype 'Prime Platine' design is a few hours from being finished. **\<msvb-loc>** A board rendition is complete: **\<msvb-loc>** taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-rfc-hwallet-1-implementation/ **\<msvb-loc>** It will go to press in a couple days and I hope to have PCBs in a week, then assemble them. **\<msvb-loc>** Last week I visited the Embedded World (largest embedded hardware conference in the world) and spoke to manufacturers and IC chip vendors all day. **\<msvb-loc>** The most important thing (since we otherwise have all bases covered) is to get a stable and high quality display (OLED) supplier, so that's what I was working on. **\<msvb-loc>** Are there any questions about the state of Monero hardware? I have no more comments. **\<sgp\_>** How hard do you think it will be to get an OLED supplier? **\<rehrar>** You guys decided on a secure element? **\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: Not too hard to get a supplier, it might mean we need to buy quantities or plan way ahead (since they can only deliver with 6 weeks lead time.) **\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: We're still intent on trying for Microchip CEC1702 secure MCU, and if that fails a Nordic nRF52840. **\<msvb-loc>** We will have Atmel secure elements on top of those things regardless. **\<msvb-loc>** Last night I met with WolfSSL and a local hardware engineer. They are partnering with Infineon on their secure elements, but it's not a good deal. Very closed, secretive, and they don't like small (OSH) groups like ours. **\<msvb-loc>** They are doing TPM. **\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: What do you think, any suggestions or opinions about this? **\<rehrar>** I don't have the expertise to have an opinion, but I remember it's been a point of great discussion on previous hardware meetings. **\<rehrar>** So I thought I'd ask. **\<msvb-loc>** I'm really shorting the story of course. I met with Samsung as well, because they now have low powered IoT modules with TPN and crypto inside, quite cheap. But that would divert our resources too much, because it's a radically different architecture. **\<rehrar>** There's nothing to say that the first Kastelo schematic released needs to be the last ;) **\<msvb-loc>** Ha, yes the schematic is here: **\<msvb-loc>** https://taiga.getmonero.org/media/attachments/1/c/7/0/857dcae1517fe27c1988443ef7da48e2570af956d34ba7957f6b542c2a95/breakneck-sch.png **\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: Thanks. **\<sgp\_>** Thanks msvb-loc. Always interesting to see what's going on on the hardware side of things. **\<sgp\_>** b. Localization workgroup Q&A **\<sgp\_>** @erciccione_[m] **\<sgp\_>** I've noticed that you have been very busy lately :) **\<erciccione\_[m]>** that's me :) **\<erciccione\_[m]>** yes a lot of new contributors, and that's extremely good **\<erciccione\_[m]>** also, people started using Taiga for coordination within communities of translators and i'm very happy about that **\<erciccione\_[m]>** i've no particular updates, except for the fact that my FFS proposal will expire on the 7th **\<erciccione\_[m]>** i'm already writing another one hoping in the support of the community. it will be out tomorrow :) **\<sgp\_>** Sweet, you already answered my question **\<erciccione\_[m]>** anybody has questions? **\<rehrar>** When Italian site? :D **\<rehrar>** looking forward to a complete language **\<erciccione\_[m]>** in the new FFS there will also be a resume of what have been achived durign this 3 months **\<sgp\_>** Thanks erciccione. I look forward to reading it **\<erciccione\_[m]>** rehrar: i hope soon, the PR is there and it's ready to be merged, but i've been doing a lot of support this week i couldn't dedicate much time to it **\<rehrar>** cool **\<sgp\_>** Does anyone else have a FFS update? **\<rehrar>** I do **\<erciccione\_[m]>** i hope i can push some more pages next week **\<rehrar>** I've got an active FFS with Kovri that's ongoing. **\<rehrar>** Unfortunately, on a personal level, February was a difficult and stressful time for me, and I completed about 15 out of 40 hours **\<rehrar>** so obviously I will not accept any payment, and will instead accept for March since things have quieted down for me **\<rehrar>** just an update for the community **\<sgp\_>** Thanks for the update **\<rehrar>** so yeah, Jan, Feb and March will simply become Jan, March, April **\<sgp\_>** cool, makes sense **\<sgp\_>** 4. Bulletproof audit discussion **\<sgp\_>** Let’s spend a little time discussing the bulletproof code audit proposal. As mentioned earlier, the proposal is here: https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/89993/bulletproofs-audit **\<sgp\_>** MRL’s overview and suggestions are here: https://github.com/b-g-goodell/research-lab/blob/master/audits/BP/README.pdf **\<serhack>** yea :) rehrar **\<sgp\_>** Does anyone have any feedback that sarang and surae can use as they prepare the FFS request to be moved to Funding Required? **\<rehrar>** does suraeNoether or sarang have anything to say regarding this? :D **\<sgp\_>** They're probably doing more important things **\<sgp\_>** They just had another research paper dropped on their desk **\<msvb-loc>** What does SoW stand for, Securing of Work? xwerter6 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds). **\<sgp\_>** msvb-loc, where do you see SoW? **\<rehrar>** Scope of Work, I believe **\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: SoW is the prefix to many of the bids on: **\<msvb-loc>** https://github.com/b-g-goodell/research-lab/tree/master/audits/BP/ **\<sgp\_>** ah, I see now. see rehrar's answer **\<sgp\_>** Anyway, I'm happy that the review of bulletproofs should be happening soon **\<sgp\_>** If there are no further comments, I'll move on **\<Randolf>** Hmm, SoW means Scope of Work and not Stake of Work? Hmm. **\<Randolf>** I guess the computer industry is a bit of a victim of acronym overuse sometimes. :) **\<sgp\_>** 5. MoneroV discussion **\<sgp\_>** The community needs to stay vigilant for the upcoming MoneroV fork, which poses a threat on Monero. I have seen an increasing number of news articles that reference this fork without referencing any of the possible harms. I have also seen more people think that simply using a temporary wallet removes all the risk. **\<sgp\_>** Let’s spend some time recommending ways the community can address chain splits. How can we handle the social, community aspect of it? **\<sgp\_>** ie: how can we effectively get the message across, even to those with no idea how Monero works? **\<Randolf>** Is MoneroV specifically intended to cause harm to Monero? (Sort of like how Roger Ver created the BCash fork of Bitcoin and seems to be trying to destroy Bitcoin?) **\<ArticMine>** We will need to provide the users with options and the long term effects **\<sgp\_>** @Randolf it is most likely just someone trying to get rich quick, but who knows? **\<Randolf>** sgp_: As seems to be the case with many forks. **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Your video on it I think helped a lot... but most people are too lazy to watch a 20 minute video smh **\<Randolf>** Is this the first time that Monero has been forked? **\<ArticMine>** I do not think MoneroV was deliberately designed to hurt Monero **\<Randolf>** That's good, at least. **\<ArticMine>** It is the first time we have an "air drop" **\<serhack>** If sgp agreed with me , I could try to reach some users by writing a solid article in my blog. **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** No, it's just the first time people are trying to participate in a scammy airdrop **\<sgp\_>** serhack sure, the more exposure the better **\<erciccione\_[m]>** guys i have to go. Will catch you tomorrow **\<serhack>** bye erciccione_[m] **\<Randolf>** So, referring to it as "yet another fork" could be helpful. **\<Randolf>** That way it keeps Monero in the "driver's seat" so-to-speak. **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Perhaps we could put something about it in the daily discussion thread on reddit? Yesterday I spent way too much time explaining to people that it's a scam and bad for their own privacy **\<sgp\_>** I recommend writing a comprehensive guide on /r/xmrtrader that is stickied. But I would still like some feedback regarding what to include to best get the message across to those who think this is just another opportunity to make money **\<ArticMine>** Yes but will that be enough? I mean XMR at 100,000 USD and scammy XMV at 0.5% market cap or 50 USD x10? **\<ArticMine>** That would put MoneroV at a larger market cap than Monero today **\<ArticMine>** This is the kind of long term risk that I have to be concerned about **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** I wanna know who is actually going to be buying these coins tho... literally everyone I have spoken to about it just wants to dump them **\<sgp\_>** I think over 95% of people see this as an opportunity to dump **\<msvb-loc>** sgp_: Dump what? **\<ArticMine>** So I am in the camp of safely splitting of the XMV by using the same mixing on both chains **\<sgp\_>** The XMV **\<sgp\_>** In regards to ArticMine's comments, I have some news **\<sgp\_>** Moneromooo and stoffu have been hard at work on a tool that could be used to mitigate the impact of hardforks. You can see my comment on the issue, where it provides three key features: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/3322 **\<Randolf>** As an end-user, if it's a hard-fork then I naturally see that as a benefit to me because it means that my holdings increase. The question becomes, do I keep my hard forked holdings, or do I sell them (e.g., for Monero or something else)? **\<sgp\_>** Before you get overly excited that someone has created a tool, keep in mind this tool only works if many people use it. If only about 20% of people claiming their MoneroV use this sort of tool, then about 42% of those who use the tool will still have their transactions revealed immediately after the fork. This is still better than 100% of transactions. Furthermore, using a tool when some number of transactions exist after the fork will have significant benefits. **\<ArticMine>** Yes I am very much aware of their work. It provides some very critical tools **\<ArticMine>** To do what I am suggesting **\<Randolf>** My perspective, as an end-user, is that Monero is the de facto base or fallback that I can always depend on. **\<Randolf>** s/My/From my/ **\<monerobux>** Randolf meant to say: From my perspective, as an end-user, is that Monero is the de facto base or fallback that I can always depend on. **\<sgp\_>** The problem is that, with ringsize 5, we need to get over 2/3 of MoneroV claimers to use a tool like this, at least initially **\<ArticMine>** Ringsize will likely be a topic ant the dev meeting **\<ArticMine>** at **\<sgp\_>** For those using the tool to feel reasonably comfortable **\<sgp\_>** Yeah, I'm taking about MoneroV though **\<ArticMine>** But yes increasing ringsize is part of the mitigation **\<sgp\_>** We can have forks in the future that advertise themsevles as "MoneroLight" with mandatory 0-mixin transactions **\<sgp\_>** rendering tools like these useless **\<sgp\_>** So yes, the best thing Monero can do (tool or not) is to increase its own ringsize. I advocated at the last meeting for 7 **\<ArticMine>** Actually such a 0 mixin fork does not pose a threat to the exixting chain **\<ArticMine>** Since ti does not compromise prior outputs **\<ArticMine>** it **\<sgp\_>** ArticMine yes, because it reuses the same key image on both **\<sgp\_>** thus the input is still compromised **\<dEBRUYNE>** A 0 mixin fork would even be worse **\<dEBRUYNE>** Because there aren't any mitigations you can use such as using the same ring **\<sgp\_>** it's as if you sent a 0-mixin transaction in Monero directly **\<ArticMine>** but only affects those who use the fork **\<dEBRUYNE>** True **\<dEBRUYNE>** Uh no **\<dEBRUYNE>** wait **\<dEBRUYNE>** Not if your output is used as decoy **\<sgp\_>** Well, the inputs still impact the Moenro blockchain **\<sgp\_>** yes debruyne **\<sgp\_>** I can walk you through it later ArticMine if you want **\<sgp\_>** For the sake of this meeting though, I just want to make people aware that this tool now exists, and that we can consider options to convince people to use something like this **\<ArticMine>** Yes I see because they are exposed as real **\<ArticMine>** or spent to be correct. So they cannot be used in the future **\<ArticMine>** as decoys **\<dEBRUYNE>** It would reduce the ring size with 1 **\<dEBRUYNE>** If they are used as decoy, because they are provably spent **\<sgp\_>** If anyone would like to help me create posts telling uninformed people about MoneroV and what to do, I would really love your help. Send me a PM and we can get a workgroup together. Since this is a social problem, I'd rather not try and handle it myself **\<sgp\_>** We don't really have much time left for open ideas time, but is there anythign else people want to add quickly? **\<ArticMine>** Yes that is the issue. But for post fork txs one has to use only post fork mixins as a defense to such a 0 mixin air drop **\<sgp\_>** ArticMine yes, that is one of the protections included in the tool **\<sgp\_>** Which means the negative impact wears off very quickly fortunately **\<msvb-loc>** Anyone have an idea of a stopgap service to run a website on kastelo.org or getkastelo.org? **\<sgp\_>** Good question msvb-loc that I wish I had the answer to **\<msvb-loc>** Is there something like Hotmail for websites, that allows an idiot to create a single page site in 5 minutes? **\<rehrar>** what's stopgap? **\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Until we can get a real website in 1-2 months. **\<rehrar>** msvb-loc, you don't need an idiot to create a web page in 5 minutes **\<rehrar>** I'm a web developer **\<rehrar>** .............remember? **\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Yes, and you are already doing twenty things. **\<msvb-loc>** I know that. **\<rehrar>** well make it 21 **\<sgp\_>** github bootstrap template? **\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Then the problem is solved, thank you very very very much. **\<rehrar>** I'll see if I can't get you a single page as a temp within the week **\<rehrar>** make a Taiga thing with all the info you want to be on it **\<msvb-loc>** rehrar: Okay, I'll do that. **\<sgp\_>** Any other last-minute thoughts? Now's your last chance **\<sgp\_>** 7. Confirm next meeting date/time **\<rehrar>** Happy Valentine's Day! **\<sgp\_>** The next community meeting will be two weeks from today on 17 March. The Coffee Chat will be next Saturday on 10 March. **\<sgp\_>** 8. Conclusion **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** No open ideas? **\<sgp\_>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU. **\<rehrar>** meeting 'officially' over **\<rehrar>** but 'unofficial' open ideas time starts now **\<sgp\_>** @cryptochangements we ran out of time, but I'm happy to still discuss them here **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Ok cool **\<xmrmatterbridge> \<cryptochangements>** Someone mentioned on reddit the other day doing an AMA on r/IAmA to answer questions that people who might not really know that much about cryptocurrency might have. It could also be a chance to promote why we need financial privacy. Good idea? Bad idea? **\<sgp\_>** Good idea imo **\<sgp\_>** But we need to convince those at AMA why **\<phx[m]>** I don't feel like Reddit is the right platform tbh **\<sgp\_>** phx[m] I still think it would be more helpful than harmful **\<sgp\_>** The interesting part will be who they would accept. They typically need to have some formal position afaik **\<defterade>** I don't see an AMA producing high quality questions. **\<defterade>** I think it will be met with a lot of uninformed skepticism and misinformation. **\<defterade>** I can already see the highest upvoted comment being an essay moaning about energy consumption. **\<defterade>** Followed by an attempt to explain the merits of PoW, which the average /r/IAMA vistor will not understand anyway. **\<sgp\_>** I still think it's good to answer these questions