--- layout: post title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2017-07-02 summary: Official website, marketing / social media, slogan, Kovri, and miscellaneous tags: [dev diaries, crypto] author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony --- # Logs **\** Alright, does everyone have their shrimp tacos? **\** Introduction Greetings Marketing discussion Monero site - final thoughts Updating social media pages Monero slogan Community Q&A: forced discussion by topic **\** a. GUI/CLI **\** b. Kovri **\** c. Recent developments **\** d. Roadmap Confirm next meeting date/time Conclusion **\** oops fail **\** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/82 **\** here is the agenda for today **\** it's 12:30 so we can go ahead and get started **\** 0. Introductions **\** Hi **\** Hello **\** Heyo **\** Jo **\** once upon a time **\** Yes? **\** hi. is that an introduction? **\** it's basically a role call :P **\** Howdy howdy **\** exciting! more rooms :D **\** It was a dark and stormy night. **\** is this channel a safe space for liberals **\** :D **\** Ok, pero has suggested we shuffle some things around cuz he has to go soon **\** So we're going to start with 3. Monero site - final thoughts **\** Okay **\** for those who don't know, here is the link to the test server: http://45.32.161.183/ **\** First of all: I can tell that rehrar have done a good job! **\** I am the designer and creator of the site, so feel free to ask me any questions. **\** the website is pretty c00l **\** i like it **\** Honestly, it's pretty much ready to rumble at this point. Will probably be submitting the PR today. **\** looks good, imo **\** front text definitely is nicerthan the last time I looked **\** Any comments, criticisms, complaints, or other? :) **\** will website be multilingual rehrar? **\** that...will take some doing. :P But there are plans in the future for that, yes. **\** good enough for launch my only thing is that there's too much text everywhere **\** someone needs to go town with the delete key **\** Site looks good, but I still think we need more people going over the text on it and rewriting sections of text that are written poorly. **\** rehrar graphics on the front page are a huge imprivement :) **\** but i never really considered content as a major part of the scope for this project **\** lol **\** right, I thought the project was about doing the framework/layout **\** figured the community will take care of that after **\** text and content is for another effort **\** Yes yes. Off. **\** Ofc **\** Only a very small thing: The "drop-down" triangles e.g. to the right of "Get Started" are rather small **\** knaccc's suggested content has been placed here: http://45.32.161.183/get-started/what-is-monero/ **\** I think it's a great. Much improvements. I'd say just get it out there and people will say words and things will get done. **\** One quick note on translations before they get started....would it be possible to use Transifex? **\** yea that page is pretty solid now **\** the other issue that ArticMine had brought up is the lack of tech talk so to speak on the site **\** The process for contributing content has been created and document. This is a lot of hard work and huge improvement **\** something very important is missing from the GUI wallet (windows) **\** was really the weak point of the site before - it's essentially the 2nd most important page **\** so I have plans for a Coin specs page as well as a 'How it works' (privacy) page **\** TRAY. i love tray **\** and yea we need some nitty gritty tech shit somewhere **\** So one can contribute the tech talk **\** anyone who wants to contribute to the site can find instructions to do so here: https://github.com/rehrar/monero-site-framework/blob/master/website-documentation.md **\** rbrunner: good point. if they could be a bit larger, wouldn't hurt. **\** they are very thorough, and cover how to do most of the things that a regular contribute will want to do **\** ^ That is my point **\** otherwise, sounds like we can call this phase Done and move on. **\** ok, any other discussion points? **\** rehrar: about merchants **\** the only other thing is the redone FFS **\** it's about 80% complete and will be finished post-launch **\** for now the link will lead to the old FFS **\** Without forum, is it still the FFS? **\** rehrar on the front page, s/hae/have **\** just waiting on FP for a couple of things **\** got it, thanks knaccc **\** serhack, what's your comment? :) **\** can you write a few words about guidelines? **\** rehrar suggestion for the website, a "dark" version **\** we can't post merchants that sell drugs **\** We can go as is then then use the process to add a lot more content **\** oh hey. MoneroDirect should read "(non-US only)" - it is not Euro only. **\** what site are you talking about? **\** Change can be proposed vis the pr process **\** http://45.32.161.183/get-started/what-is-monero/ **\** cool **\** this netg **\** well hyc, with the new documentation, you can submit a PR to change it :D **\** willdo **\** but I can do it too :P **\** CryptoSiD: dark version? **\** like...the website has a dark color scheme? **\** going to be getmonero.org later? **\** id also like to flag this **\** https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/290 **\** yeah exactly **\** yes netg **\** need someone to do that server-side most likely **\** maybe that falls on pigeons? not sure? **\** ye. very important pero. Thanks. Not sure who handles the servers themselves. **\** CryptoSiD: possible, but impractical imo **\** perhaps someone can post a catalog of existing pages vs new pages onto that ticket **\** No I don't work with getmonero.org so far **\** it might be possible to just put empty pages with meta refresh tags on old urls, pointing to new urls **\** this can be discussed further down the road (dark theme) **\** but idk im not that hands on usually **\** rehrar you know that on the front page where it says 'which you can read about here', there is no link? **\** Here now! **\** yes, I know. I will be writing things today and tomorrow. **\** yeah it's sure not a priority but im pretty sure lots of people would like a dark version of the website **\** kinda like poloniex **\** Yes this is very important to preserve link integrity **\** keep all the SEOs **\** ok, any final thoughts? **\** Will somebody watch the site through Google webmaster tools? **\** if it is a serious project, i can provide a good/semi-good monero domain **\** rehrar: did you see my comment? :) **\** idk how much 'seo' we actually need **\** about merchant guidelines? **\** the site will have lots of organic links to it **\** I like dark themes too, but I think they are mostly for sites where users will be staring at the screen for hours (to reduce eye strain) **\** i own xmr.biz monero.pro xmr.su monero.su **\** yeah rehrar **\** e.g. **\** not sure it's super necessary at this point. We can hit it if we have to, but I don't see a need atm. **\** erg1 good point. **\** perhaps for keywords such as 'anonymous cryptocurrency' and stuff some seo content might be prudent **\** if desired **\** netg: it will become getmonero.org **\** ok **\** okay rehrar :) **\** but for 'monero' it should be #1 automagically **\** then github needs a dark theme :P **\** alright **\** next up **\** dark wrapper maybe **\** :o **\** With the amount of text on the site SEO is a non issue **\** Oh shoot. 1. was greetings **\** yea i think the backlinks will take care of the seo **\** 2. Marketing discussion **\** google picks up on things like context **\** if a page links to the site next to words 'anonymous crypto' **\** it'll rank the site for 'anon crypto' **\** sgp, now that you're here, is there anything you had in mind for this point? **\** so really we just need to spread more links on other popular sites **\** Yes but Google will penalize manipulation **\** well i was saying organically **\** Sure, if you want I can take it from here **\** I would focus on god content and let Google do its thing **\** yea **\** +100 **\** Last meeting, we discussed the transition of Monero Marketing to Monero Community, and it was met with general agreement. The logic is that most interested people want to spend time working on improving Monero, and only a few are primarily interested in marketing. In the past, the project received criticism from many Monero community members who are against marketing. **\** you can take this point, we'll see how things continue :) **\** Some people have since voiced their concerns that the marketing project is being closed until further notice. They feel that marketing should live alongside community. I personally feel that the community involved only in marketing is too small, and those interested in marketing will be welcomed to share their ideas on Monero Community. However, if there are enough people interested in a separate marketing community, please express your interest below. If it is strong enough, we may develop both communities simultaneously. **\** https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=monero **\** there might be a seo arms race vs other shitcoins but odds are we just wont win that anyway if they decide to spend $ manipulating **\** ^^ useful link **\** and unique content, which differs to other coins **\** Community drives marketing in my opinion **\** no to generic stuff **\** and http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/getmonero.org#trafficstats **\** Let's move the discussion to #2 for now. We can talk about the other stuff later if there is time **\** Well from my understanding, we're going to be moving to a work-group oriented approach. Where there are different work groups for different aspects of Monero. **\** like we had 2 years ago **\** I know fluffypony is in favor of keeping Monero Marketing separate. Does anyone have any strong opinions either way on this? **\** hhe **\** makes sense to me for marketing to be closely integrated with community **\** Development is obviously one, Community is another, Marketing can be another, and even third-party development can be separate if we wanted **\** Marketing is secondary to community **\** articMine: +1 **\** not quite sure of th details, but it makes it easier for people who want to get involved to identify workgroups that they want to be involved in **\** Not to be pedantic, but I wish people would stop treating "marketing" as a synonym for promotion or evangelism. Marketing is a much broader concept of fostering a thriving ecosystem. Of course, spreading the good word is a very important part. **\** If one has community one has the best free marketing **\** Community is more important than marketing... A strong community will market itself organically. **\** erg1: +10 **\** fair enough. then I don't know what the distinction is btw Community and Marketing in our context. **\** while I understand and agree to a point with what ArticMine and quickbasic are saying, I think there is a place for focused effort to go into making quality Monero content **\** Even though I understand the broader and more benign definition of marketing, i worry about having a focus on that and the type of participants it attracts **\** @hyc for now with the current community size, I expect them to all fit nicely in one subreddit/channel at the moment **\** may I give an example that I had given previously in markets about what strong marketing can be? **\** sgp: that's kinda what I thought **\** If we focus on community we will get the best markeing **\** I think we should spread monero as money like "Accept payment with monero" or something like this. **\** Imagine a video that is made. Format doesn't matter. Graphics like Savandra or a talking head or whatever. Talking about privacy, why it's important, and the issues we face today that are privacy oriented. We don't even have to mention Monero. It's just privacy education. **\** pigeons: yes, I agree. My problem with "marketers" (promoters) is motivation. Typically they only want to pump the price. Far different than spreading the word on improving people's lives. **\** Those kind of things can be irritating **\** At the very end, we have the Monero logo animation thing for three seconds. **\** @rehrar I agree that there should be focused content with the purpose of marketing, but I believe it happens as result of leave communities. **\** The end. Marketing can be educational in nature, but still come from us. **\** \*large **\** dont give marketing/promotion-work to new/extern people **\** building good software and community and ecosystem is a much higher priority than awareness and users in these stages when things are still in heavy development **\** I am a privacy advocate, so all of my personal marketing efforts will be educational and privacy oriented **\** good rehrar **\** Focus on customer service / support **\** Not to detract, but would here be a good place to also highlight the monero-support channel with all this multi channel discussion? **\** dont accept people with their own agendas (pushing their private sites, their ego whatever) **\** Based on the discussion, it seems like Monero Marketing will currently stay a part of Monero Community unless there is an active movement and community to separate it. If someone wants to do this, let us know by PM, in monero-community or monero, and /r/MoneroCommunty or /r/Monero **\** sounds fine **\** I agree **\** Moving on to #3: Monero Site – final thoughts **\** and agreed about developing more educational material **\** The new Monero website is nearing completion. We would like for you to share your final ideas. The new website is currently live at http://45.32.161.183/ **\** I still have hold of the Monero Marketing subreddit in case it needs to revive for whatever reason, so there's no big deal on whatever decision we make right now **\** already done the Site sgp **\** Some text can be updated, and we would like people to make improvements to the website. The guide for updating the repository is here https://github.com/rehrar/monero-site-framework/blob/master/website-documentation.md **\** (ok sorry) **\** no worries **\** pero had to leave early, so we did that first **\** @serhack did you get in what you want to say? **\** either i am slow and old or this chat is very fast **\** sgp: yeah **\** we rarely get this many interested people talking at once netg **\** @serhack ok, great. Moving on then **\** 4. Updating social media sites **\** The site design looks good to me, the only problem that I have is that it doesnt work too well on mobile **\** cryptochangement, agreed **\** cryptochangement: shoot me a message, what doesn't work well? **\** Works okay on Chrome and Firefox mobile for me. **\** Monero has a Facebook and a Twitter page. https://www.facebook.com/monerocurrency/ & https://twitter.com/monerocurrency **\** They publish some great content overall, but I want to focus today on the background image for these sites. It’s basically just a web and explains nothing specific to Monero. **\** For anyone interested in a simple task, try making a simple background image and submit it to /r/MoneroCommunity or monero-community. **\** We will have further discussion about how these social sites can be used in the future, so if anyone is interested in how social media can be used to make Monero conversations more effective, please let any of the moderators (or create a post for the entire community to see) after the meeting. **\** maybe it was because I was using the default safari, but it came up in two small columns **\** the text that is **\** rehrar it is purely a formatting issue that can be discussed after the meeting if thats easier **\** xmrscott: yes good point support is and important community aspect **\** 5. Monero slogan **\** The Monero slogan is “secure private untraceable fungible”. I don’t think this is extremely effective, and there has been a lot of discussion in the community to change this slogan of sorts. I want this to be a quick brainstorming session to come up with a new one. **\** Facebook can be used to promote Monero but Monero should not be used to promote Facebook **\** The slogan needs to appeal to 3 distinct groups: 1) those who care about privacy and have never used cryptocurrency, 2) those who don’t care about privacy and usually use credit, 3) those who have used Bitcoin before. It is hard to appeal to these groups. **\** What's the difference btw @monerocurrency and @moneroalert **\** Monero: Facebook approved **\** rehrar ehehehe **\** "Mind your own business!" **\** @ArticMine I agree. We can use Monero as a tool for spreading the word about Monero, though obviously not encourage people to use Facebook **\** In my opinion, the best replacement is “your safe money”. It’s not especially good, but I like using the word “safe” because it is a positive word that can mean something different to everyone. A privacy fanatic would consider safe to mean private, and someone who doesn’t care about privacy might see it as cool for its decentralization. **\** Monero, your bank, your privacy **\** Anyway, it’s brainstorming time with those thoughts in mind! **\** share your thoughts **\** Monero is digital cash. Meet Monero. **\** dash.org **\** Anybody likes my idea to hold a little contest to decide on a slogan? **\** spg i personally like "secure" better than "safe" because i think it fits monero better **\** how was the current slogan decided? **\** sgp This is a trap set by Facebook that most organization fall into **\** new slogan should be a request for proposal to the community **\** @hyc unofficially with common use **\** with later voting the new one **\** Safe is better because it groks different for different people IMO. **\** They end up promoting Facebook **\** @serhack: "Your Monero, your bank, your privacy"? **\** and no change should be one of the options to choose **\** ordtrogen: nice **\** "Your money or your life" **\** maybe instead of adopting a new slogan, we can instead phase out the old one without replacing it? **\** Remember the movie running man? "Is it safe?" **\** do we need an official slogan **\** ? **\** hyc ^ this **\** Yes **\** Got privacy? **\** I agree with Pigeons. Until we can reach a new consensus, no change to slogan is a good option **\** Agreed. We don't need a slogan necessarily. **\** there can be multiple slogans **\** we're not trying to make every change this minute, but starting conversations is always a good thing to do **\** anyway **\** We don't need to entirely replace the other slogan, but I think coming up with a new one that may or may not be used is a good thing **\** otoh do any fiat currencies have slogans? **\** eh. short memorable taglines are helpful **\** "Monero: a private digital bank to do transact how you deem fit" **\** (not that we need to take after them) **\** I'm getting more comfortable with the current one, but "private" and "untraceable" seem somewhat redundant. **\** to transact\* **\** does the USD have a slogan? **\** USD: 'Murica **\** "In God We Trust" **\** In God We Trust **\** yee'haw **\** good one **\** It would have one if it started as a new currency today **\** of course, that's only been there since 1954 **\** This note is legal tender for all debts public and private **\** also, FUDsters might latch onto "untraceable" to imply it's only for nefarious activity. **\** Ah, that's tru **\** or something **\** floam412 fiat doesnt have to try to stand out from others becuase it is the only one accepted **\** Monero: The first fungible digital currency **\** E Pluribus Unum is the original USD slogan **\** Yeah, let's do an Esparanto one **\** Swedish "krona" used to have (in latin) "Hinc robur et securitas" **\** Hence strength and security (or something like that) **\** something to distinguish "true privacy" from "fake privacy" might be nice. **\** the words for Secure, Private, and Untraceable in esparanto, quick! **\** Good thoughts all around here, everyone **\** aminorex has something that means "no freedom without privacy" or so. **\** In esperanto I think. **\** Something simple such as 'Money for all" in Esperanto **\** that'd be legit **\** Yeah I'd say we could drop Untraceable from a new slogan. Private should cover it. **\** ooo I like that mooo **\** hyc i think private may not necessaily infer privacy for some people **\** translate "Hinc robur et securitas" into Esperanto, anyone? **\** money for all is to generic **\** That is my point **\** hyc as in 'private label' doesn't mean privacy **\** Most digital money is not for all **\** alright, any more thought son this or should we move on? :) **\** Next generation digital money **\** anyway, the more important point is fungibility, not privacy **\** We still got plenty of time **\** "Monero: secure your funds with crypto moon math" **\** Digital money for all **\** Google translate says: "tie la forto kaj sekureco" **\** hyc a lot of people dont even know what "fungible" means though **\** a lot of ppl don't know the difference between digital and virtual **\** tru dat **\** yes which is why we need a MArketing Workgroup doing educational content :P **\** lol hyc **\** hence why they've been called virtual currencies **\** Private currency on a global scale **\** Private currency for a global world **\** I imagine this discussion will continue for a while longer, so keep thinking about this slogan **\** there was an marketing workgroup 2 years ago **\** with david **\** and risto **\** and a mailinglist, documentsharing on google docs **\** etc. **\** I will make threads on /r/MoneroCommunity for more ideas, and the discussion can obviously continue later on in monero-community **\** Moving on **\** 6. Community Q&A – forced discussion by topic **\** In this section, we will allow for Q&A by topic. When the topic comes up, please ask to be called on to ask a question. Each question will be answered individually before moving on to another person’s question. Please wait until you are called on to ask questions for organizational reasons. **\** (please read that last sentence) **\** a. GUI/CLI **\** Anyone have any questions? Don't ask them yet please, let's go one at a time **\** (btw, we're trying new stuff out in these meetings, like in this section, feel free to give feedback afterwards) **\** \ What's the difference btw @monerocurrency and @moneroalert \<= Former is the official account **\** OK I have a Q **\** @hyc you have the floor, ask away! **\** It is hard to choose one slogan that is applicable to all users. Based on the data I collected 1+ years ago, I think simple is usually better https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2536/marketing-research-proposal **\** Do we have plans for getting Android/iOS packages into their app stores yet? **\** @hyc afaik, no work has been done there **\** But the goal should be to get in the app stores **\** ok thx **\** Anyone else have a question? **\** Do you have to reserve names for app store apps? **\** @tficharmers no idea **\** i heard that a native ios mymonero app was being worked on, is the source on github? **\** I think the native ios app is in a private repo.... but that is the specialty of endogenic **\** Ok, moving on to the next one **\** XMRenthusiast ok thanks :) **\** next time you see endogenic, call him Shap Shap **\** Thanks for bearing with us as we try new organizational things **\** b. Kovri **\** Before we begin this section, I want to point out that the next informational video will be about Kovri. Please join promo-video to get involved with this preparation. Now, on to discussion. **\** Anyone have a question? Remember, don't ask it yet :p **\** teacher **\** @rehrar lol yeah? **\** I just want to get a general feel about Monero's understanding of Kovri, since it's pretty important. **\** Can I ask everyone present to give a 1-10 answer (1 being least and 10 being greatest) **\** on how well they understand Kovri, what it is, and how it will help Monero **\** 4 **\** 9 **\** 7 **\** 8 **\** 5 **\** 4 **\** 7 **\** 4 **\** 3 **\** 8 **\** 8 **\** 7 **\** 7 **\** awesome! thank you so much. This will help me as I work on Kovri education stuff. :) **\** Any other questions? **\* moneromooo** scratches head **\** at least anonmimal wasn't here voting less than 10 **\** @knaccc yes? **\** hard to asnwer the kovri question. e g I feel knowledgabe about Tor but know little about Kovri. **\** i'm starting to wonder whether i really do understand what kovri brings to monero if moneromooo says 4 **\** But they serve similar purpose right? **\** i thought it was pretty straightforward **\** we can talk afterwards ordtrogen :) **\** I have to understand how kovri works **\* floam412** raises hand **\** I kinda answered as "do you understand how it works". **\** I'd throw a 8 **\** oh, my bad moneromooo, poorly phrased question I guess **\** Admit I haven't read up on it **\** moneromooo oh ok. i think you were answering differently then :) **\** kovri is a c++ router for the i2p network, which is similiar to tor but not really (pretty vague answer... but yeah) **\** with pixie dust added **\** moneromooo is just very humble **\** Next question, @floam412 **\** Also sorry, stepped out for a second. Would also like to voice support for something slick translated to Esperanto. **\** are we planning on using kovri through the monero GUI/CLI client to directly connect to i2p? **\** or how does that work? **\** At some point, yes. **\** like could/would it possibly be used to be a sort of "browser"? **\