From 7a7ce8274b6b61d0ee930459fd71d08ba69cf138 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: el00ruobuob <bruno.labour@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 10:06:40 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Dev meeting logs from 2019-09-22 --- ...-for-the-dev-meeting-held-on-2019-09-22.md | 328 ++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 328 insertions(+) create mode 100644 _posts/2019-09-22-logs-for-the-dev-meeting-held-on-2019-09-22.md diff --git a/_posts/2019-09-22-logs-for-the-dev-meeting-held-on-2019-09-22.md b/_posts/2019-09-22-logs-for-the-dev-meeting-held-on-2019-09-22.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..84d53d70 --- /dev/null +++ b/_posts/2019-09-22-logs-for-the-dev-meeting-held-on-2019-09-22.md @@ -0,0 +1,328 @@ +--- +layout: post +title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2019-09-22 +summary: Development status, 0.15 release discussion, Network upgrade planning, and miscellaneous +tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto] +author: el00ruobuob / rehrar +--- + +# Logs + +**\<rehrar>** ok +**\<rehrar>** it's time +**\<rehrar>** 1. Greetings +**\<rehrar>** who all is here? +**\<sgp\_>** hello :) +**\<needmonero90>** Hi +**\<xmrscott[m]>** Hey hey hey +**\<rbrunner>** Hi +**\<tevador>** hey +**\<sech1>** \\o/ +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** Hi +**\<ferretinjapan>** so everyone except the people rehrar pinged are here, nice. +**\<rehrar>** it would seem so +**\<rehrar>** moneromooo: do we have you at least? :P +**\<moneromooo>** Yes. +**\<rehrar>** one last round for fluffypony luigi1111 ArticMine binaryFate +**\<rehrar>** please join us ASAP +**\<rehrar>** in the meantime, we can move on to 2. What's been completed since last meeting? +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** here +**\<sech1>** I've finished RandomX JIT compiler for ARM CPUs. Verification time is even better than CN/R on ARM. +**\<moneromooo>** Pretty good stuff here. +**\<rbrunner>** Nice +**\<ArticMine>** Hi +**\<dEBRUYNE>** I am here +**\<meksi>** Hi +**\<tevador>** so I guess we are including the ARM JIT in the release? +**\<tevador>** probably no reason not to +**\<moneromooo>** It can be disabled with an env var AFAIK so sure. +**\<tevador>** just it hasn't been heavily tested as the x86 JIT +**\<SoiMatter>** Sirs! ferretinjapan asked moi to join. +**\<hyc>** since it's easily toggled off, I'd say we run with it +**\<jtgrassie>** hi +**\<SoiMatter>** o7 I will keep still :) +**\<moneromooo>** monerod can now synced from pruned blocks (optional). I'd like this to go in before release if reviewed. +**\<rehrar>** Honest question to everyone, now that CLI has reproducible builds, can we as a community decide on a date without input from Core? +**\<selsta>** GUI? +**\<rehrar>** that's next selsta :P +**\<selsta>** yes but it would be nice to release both the CLI and GUI at the same time and that depends on core +**\<moneromooo>** Pony still controls the website (for binaries to be uploaded), and the DNS records (for the hashes of the binaries). +**\<rehrar>** ok so there's distribution and GUI to consider +**\<dEBRUYNE>** Pony said he'd be around for the CLI & GUI release +**\<rehrar>** I mean, ultimately we want to go along this road at some point to reduce centralization anyways, no? +**\<moneromooo>** Also needs people to build for random OSes. Does Windows have repro builds too ? +**\<ArticMine>** Do we have a release date in mind? +**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: Yes +**\<dEBRUYNE>** At least for the CLI +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** ArticMine: i think the idea was to set a date today +**\<rehrar>** so let's set one +**\<rehrar>** ArticMine can represent the core team here +**\<sgp\_>** October 26? +**\<rehrar>** Are we thinking mid-October? End of October? +**\<dEBRUYNE>** I would personally prefer a bit more towards the end of October, as that gives us a bit more leeway +**\<ArticMine>** I do not ave an issue with setting a release date at this meeting +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** i agree +**\<hyc>** Let's go with October 31, Halloween +**\<tevador>** is this the release date of the fork date? +**\<tevador>** or\* +**\<hyc>** it'll be scary +**\<moneromooo>** I have some reservations about the stability of randomx-in-monerod. Bugs are still coming in fast. +**\<needmonero90>** Monero's spoopy fork +**\<rehrar>** tevador: fork date +**\<dEBRUYNE>** tevador: fork date +**\<sech1>** October 31 is a bit too late +**\<moneromooo>** So pushing back would be good in my view :) +**\<ArticMine>** and code freeze? +**\<rehrar>** if mooo has reservations then maybe 31 is a decent date? +**\<rehrar>** sech1: what's your reasoning? +**\<tevador>** so better to not do it in the middle of the week +**\<luigi1111>** I'm sorta here +**\<sech1>** October 31 is kind of an edge of publicly promised "fork in October" +**\<sech1>** October 26 sounds better +**\<moneromooo>** I don't anyone (who counts) ever promised. +**\<hyc>** assuming it's actually ready by then +**\<needmonero90>** Welcome to decentralization sech1. +**\<rehrar>** I am fine with 26th +**\<tevador>** yeah, 26 October would be better if it's doable +**\<needmonero90>** Community won't be too mad if we don't hit deadlines +**\<SoiMatter>** Go with the date of the next UK election +**\<hyc>** testnet has been disturbingly unstable the past few weeks. +**\<hyc>** but most of the problems were unrelated to randomX +**\<Inge->** Better a safe launch than an october launch. +**\<ArticMine>** One key point is the time between release and fork date +**\<rbrunner>** Normal testnet or the RandomX testnet? +**\<hyc>** randomX testnet +**\<hyc>** but the issues with peers being disconnected and banned would have happened on public testnet too if anyone bothered to exercise that +**\<hyc>** basically current git master is unstable, recent changes to the networking code broke a lot. +**\<sech1>** if fork is October 26 (4 weeks), would 2 weeks be enough to fix all that? +**\<sech1>** and would additional 5 days help? +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** i'm starting to think would be better to posticipate to after october +**\<tevador>** so it looks more like November +**\<ArticMine>** Release and fork date ware very different +**\<dEBRUYNE>** hyc: Those recent changes will be reverted by 5905 right? +**\<moneromooo>** Yes. +**\<ArticMine>** We need to give people time to update +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** if there are so many doubts i would just wait. No reason to rush it, this is a big fork +**\<hyc>** agreed, safer to wait +**\<rehrar>** so really all of this should have been discussed two weeks to a month ago +**\<sgp\_>** I don't think the optics of a "late" Oct 31 date will be terrible. We can get ahead of it with the Halloween marketing. If people prefer November, then I think we should still pick a date +**\<M5M400>** will this release discontinue legacy payment IDs? +**\<rehrar>** so for next time we really need to start seriously discussing the fork two months prior to "planned" date +**\<moneromooo>** Yes. +**\<moneromooo>** Though currently not banned, just code removed. +**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: I don't think we could have foreseen the issues arosen on testnet +**\<moneromooo>** Are any large exchanges still using them ? +**\<ArticMine>** I suggest an October 31 release date with a fork date 4 weeks later +**\<luigi1111>** late is far better than broken +**\<sgp\_>** I can try to compile a list +**\<sech1>** We still need to decide fork date and release schedule today +**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: literally every single fork there is a "I don't think we could have foreseen" situation? +**\<needmonero90>** What happened to move fast and break things? This is tech! +**\<dEBRUYNE>** Yes because there will simply be things that cannot be foreseen +**\<dEBRUYNE>** You cannot perfectly plan such a thing +**\<luigi1111>** I too enjoy breaking money when possible +**\<rehrar>** ok, ArticMine has made a concrete suggestion +**\<rehrar>** 31st release date, one month later fork date +**\<sgp\_>** one month? why one month? +**\<needmonero90>** I think its reasonable. +**\<needmonero90>** No objection here. +**\<ferretinjapan>** luigi1111, I agree, late and working is far better than on time and buggy... +**\<hyc>** is that the same offset we used in previous releases? +**\<M5M400>** moneromooo: i have about 330 miners still mining to payment\_id addresses. that's 5 % +**\<sgp\_>** no, closer to two weeks I think +**\<ArticMine>** To give people proper notice to upgrade +**\<luigi1111>** that's what it ended up being +**\<needmonero90>** We were pushing to the wire last time +**\<needmonero90>** To be fair +**\<luigi1111>** we never targeted two weeks that's simply not ideal +**\<needmonero90>** Two weeks was cutting it close +**\<ArticMine>** This has been an issue many times before +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** yeah, one month seems fair +**\<sech1>** October 31st release and November 30th fork then? +**\<luigi1111>** yes we've always pushed releases to late but doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do better +**\<ArticMine>** sounds fine to me +**\<sgp\_>** So what specific fork date? +**\<tevador>** 30th Nov +**\<rbrunner>** November 30 is again Saturday, which is nice +**\<sech1>** let's hope CN/R holds without ASICs until then :) +**\<ArticMine>** So when is code freeze? +**\<moneromooo>** Whenever we don't have anything left we want to merge :) +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** now with reproducible build releases should be much faster, at least for CLI. We rarely managed to release at the time we decided +**\<needmonero90>** October 31st makes sense imo +**\<sgp\_>** I think having a release in October will help with optics. And a 31st update is easy to brand +**\<rehrar>** alright, it looks like we have a loose consensus, unless anyone would like to speak now +**\<ArticMine>** Sure but how much time is needed between code freeze and release? +**\<rehrar>** in opposition +**\<luigi1111>** like a week +**\<luigi1111>** but fluffy fluffy fluffy +**\<selsta>** +1 +**\<selsta>** long code freezes never work +**\<rehrar>** luigi1111: did not show +**\<dEBRUYNE>** We only need fluffy to upload the bins though for the CLI release +**\<dEBRUYNE>** (and do the website) +**\<luigi1111>** I know but if he's building he has to be able to commit to a schedule +**\<sgp\_>** so Thanksgiving weekend hardfork (Nov 30) +**\<sech1>** yes, better safe than sorry +**\<hyc>** since we have reproducible builds we don't need him to build +**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: He said he'd be available for the release (he'd prefer to have a timeline a bit in advance though) +**\<rehrar>** luigi1111: if he's unable to commit to a schedule, then we can do the deterministic builds thing, and just make sure they get uploaded +**\<luigi1111>** ok cool +**\<luigi1111>** then just gooey +**\<rehrar>** which is you +**\<ArticMine>** The time between code freeze and release need to be set buy those closest to the code +**\<rehrar>** can you commit to this schedule? +**\<dEBRUYNE>** GUI gets build by pony +**\<rehrar>** oof +**\<needmonero90>** Speaking of build privs, I would like to formally propose that some of the GUI repo privileges be transferred to dsc (the non deterministic build part at the very least) +**\<M5M400>** how can fluffy still be the only person able to do some vital things? +**\<luigi1111>** I'm the one going to be doing all the merges in both projects so heh +**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: Third time and last time I will say -> He said he'd be available for the release +**\<rehrar>** M5M400: that's why deterministic builds is top priority +**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: ok +**\<ferretinjapan>** M5M400, mainly because reproducible builds were never a thing before now. +**\<needmonero90>** luigi1111: we really should move some of those responsibilities to dsc. +**\<dEBRUYNE>** needmonero90: I disagree, then we would have coders merging their own stuff +**\<needmonero90>** He would be the new maintainer/lead of gui +**\<needmonero90>** Or something +**\<rehrar>** ok, any other questions in regards to the set dates? October 31st release, November 30th fork. +**\<moneromooo>** So what do we need for the release ? readline fixes for repro builds, randomx. The pay-for-service stuff. Payment ID changes. Hopefully the sync-pruned-blocks. Anything else that's large or really needed ? +**\<ferretinjapan>** freeze date? +**\<rehrar>** needmonero90: that would be the first time a non-core team member will have done this. Not impossible, but certainly unprecedented and worthy of a bigger discussion which we don't have time for here in this meeting +**\<dEBRUYNE>** Once we branch the code is basically frozen right? Because then only fixes go in +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** one week code freeze would be appreciated. Let's remember that there are the translation to deal with (and i beg for a code freeze since ever :D) +**\<needmonero90>** Okay, tabled for now rehrar +**\<moneromooo>** vtnerd\_\_: are you planning to have some more network stuff ready for the release ? +**\<ferretinjapan>** I guess the #monero-pow guys would have a better idea when to freeze... +**\<ArticMine>** Oct 24th as per luigi1111 selsta? +**\<luigi1111>** he's not the only one with access to a couple things but the only one that actively used his access +**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: The readline fix is 5892 right? +**\<selsta>** ArticMine: yes +**\<luigi1111>** until recently where him and pigeons have both not been to active +**\<moneromooo>** Could be. Depends on what people who have the problem say after testing it :) +**\<dEBRUYNE>** ArticMine: I think we can branch earlier, but moneromooo probably has a better view on that +**\<ArticMine>** moneromooo does Oct 24 work for code freeze? +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** pigeons is active. I asked him to update the server of getmonero last time +**\<moneromooo>** That sounds plausible to me. +**\<M5M400>** moneromooo: it appears bittrex and binance still use payment\_id's +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** and he also gave me a hand with weblate +**\<moneromooo>** Thanks. +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** moneromooo : yes, the split mempool is jst about done (finishing core tests nows) +**\<rehrar>** wow +**\<dEBRUYNE>** M5M400: Binance is working on upgrading their system, needmonero90 is in touch with them +**\<rehrar>** vtnerd\_\_: so your stuff will make it in this one? +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** and the dandelion++ remnants \_shouldn't\_ be too painful - although I always say that :/ +**\<M5M400>** dEBRUYNE: saifu. great. +**\<needmonero90>** Binance indicated they should be ready by fork in October. Pushing the date back shouldnt hurt the timeline. +**\<M5M400>** anyone in touch with bittrex? +**\<dEBRUYNE>** They are aware as far as I know +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** I can't say whether it will "make it in", because theres always a chance something comes up during review, etc +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** but the split mempool for the i2p/tor is close to ready. my concern is that its kind of tough the way it got shoved in +**\<rbrunner>** You mean in a technical sense? +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** I took hyc's approach of adding a tag to the metadata, but I had to inspect a bunch of code paths to make sure stuff didn't leak +**\<binaryFate>** hi all, sorry got late to the party +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** ultimately a true "physical" or "logical" split would be ideal, but it seemed kind of tough at the momnent when I tried to think about hwo to do it +**\<moneromooo>** Oh so it's a single txpool, just txes have a flag ? +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** yeah, unfortunately +**\<M5M400>** are we aware of any GPU miner in the works for randX that will be ready in time for spork? +**\<moneromooo>** That's what I did for the sync-from-pruned :) +**\<hyc>** M5M400: xmrig is ready +**\<luigi1111>** 24th and 31st targets are good with me for 30th fork +**\<sech1>** M5M400 xmrig 4.0 is combined CPU + OpenCL miner +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** if thats worth a reject, then I can go back and try again, but its a little dicey otherwise (it requires a slightly larger refactor and possibly a second lmdb database) +**\<luigi1111>** mostly afk now +**\<rehrar>** vtnerd\_\_: if this does make it in this time, it can be iterated on in the future no? +**\<M5M400>** hyc: sech1: nice +**\<moneromooo>** It's not IMHO. I'd have done that too. +**\<moneromooo>** But then I tend to shove things in :) +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** yes, I don't think the patch makes it harder to refactor, its probably neutral from that perspective +**\<hyc>** I don't really see other approaches to that as being a good idea +**\<tevador>** btw, fork height could be 1978433, which is exactly the start of a RandomX epoch and should be in the afternoon CET on Nov 30th +**\<vtnerd\_\_>** as an example of what I mean - one of the weird cases is that fluffy blocks request can leak the anonymity channel, etc, so yeah +**\<dEBRUYNE>** tevador: Afternoon CET would allow most people to be online, because it would basically be late evening for Asia and morning for US +**\<moneromooo>** And let's reset testnet to fork on an epoch boundary too ? +**\<tevador>** dEBRUYNE: yeah, nice coincidence +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** i guess we have a fork height. Nice +**\<rbrunner>** With a testnet fork around release, end of October? +**\<hyc>** sounds good +**\<dEBRUYNE>** To summarize the timeline, this is approximately correct right? Branch within 2-3 weeks, freeze October 24, release October 31, fork November 30 +**\<moneromooo>** I think we have everything we need for v12 now, apart from randomx, so we can fork the real testnet as soon as it gets merged. +**\<rbrunner>** Even better then +**\<tevador>** that looks like a sensible schedule +**\<sech1>** yes, plenty of time to iron out all issues +**\<rbrunner>** Famous last words :) +**\<dEBRUYNE>** It at least feels we are better prepared now than last time :-P +**\<tevador>** someone should strictly enforce code freeze this time +**\<rehrar>** penalty of death +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** tevador: i strongly agree +**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: Do we need pony around to fork the real testnet? +**\<PauleBert>** can we reset stagenet too? it is getting quite huge +**\<moneromooo>** Yes, the miner's one of his nodes, and seed nodes need updating too. +**\<moneromooo>** The former's not a big problem, but the latter kinda is. +**\<needmonero90>** Don't reset stagenet :( +**\<dEBRUYNE>** Ok, I will send him a message then +**\<needmonero90>** Telegram tipbot uses it +**\<rbrunner>** "Reset" means here dropping a few hundreds of blocks probably, no new genesis block +**\<needmonero90>** It'll wipe all our balances ;\_; +**\<rbrunner>** Back to the latest epoc date, that is +**\<needmonero90>** (yes, I know, it's stagenet) +**\<rbrunner>** Or a few thousands ... +**\<M5M400>** are we in any way concerned about the probably 10x hashrate post fork and the amount of blocks being spit out quickly? might it be a good idea to set a ballpark initial diff? +**\<hyc>** I'm guessing that will be offset by the typical hashrate drop due to not everyone updating +**\<moneromooo>** I am not. +**\<sech1>** I don't think so. It'll rather grow slowly. +**\<rbrunner>** I think to remember from earlier forks that "doctoring" the diff is not trivial +**\<sech1>** Even with higher hashrate from CPUs, hard fork drop in hashrate will make initial diff roughly the same as now +**\<ferretinjapan>** I wouldn't be worried un less ASICs were currently saturating the network, but by the sounds of it, theres been no indication of that being the case... +**\<M5M400>** I've seen a few big miners on the pool that are most likely CPU based. one instance of 17MH cn/r. these operations don't miss forks, as opposed to casual miners +**\<sech1>** No signs of ASICs +**\<ferretinjapan>** thats good. +**\<rehrar>** alright, is there anything else of note to discuss? +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** minor: is it fine for everybody if we take down the current warning on getmonero, it's there since last fork +**\<needmonero90>** We need to talk about extending the Monero Foundation's Dev tax, and the Monero name trademark issue +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** i want to avoid people not reading it because they are used to it when we put up the new one +**\<needmonero90>** Oh wait wrong coin +**\<needmonero90>** We good +**\<hyc>** ErCiccione[m]: good idea +**\<rbrunner>** Yeah, take it down before it gets a running gag or something +**\<rbrunner>** "Monero mixes up its hardforks" +**\<rehrar>** alright +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** alright, will open a PR tomorrow +**\<rehrar>** alright friends, it would seem we're all good +**\<needmonero90>** Is Gui considered core? +**\<needmonero90>** Or is it it's own thing +**\<hyc>** dEBRUYNE: now that randomx has quieted down I'll get to rebasing that gitian PR of mine +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** needmonero90: that's actually a good question. See https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/384 +**\<selsta>** Please no renaming discussion. +**\<selsta>** The github issue is a better place for that. +**\<rehrar>** alright everyone, we'll officially break for today +**\<rehrar>** thanks for coming. Good discussion, and got a lot done. +**\<hyc>** who's posting meeting logs? +**\<rehrar>** We can continue on a two weeks schedule for now? Or want to go to one week mini-check in on off weeks? +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** hyc: el00ruobuob, usually +**\<hyc>** ok. +**\<hyc>** I think next mtg in 2 weeks is fine. after that, we can decide again +**\<rehrar>** ok +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** unles you didn't mean on getmonero +**\<rehrar>** sounds good +**\<dEBRUYNE>** hyc: Thanks +**\<dEBRUYNE>** ErCiccione[m]: I'd prefer to update it with a general information thread regarding the upcoming fork +**\<dEBRUYNE>** I can have that ready next week +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** dEBRUYNE: sure! will you PR it on repo.getmonero? +**\<IRC-Source\_89>** guys sorry for the question , but i missed the begining of the discussion... Have you already choosen a block height for the fork? +**\<scoobybejesus>** tevador> btw, fork height could be 1978433, which is exactly the start of a RandomX epoch and should be in the afternoon CET on Nov 30th +**\<dEBRUYNE>** ErCiccione[m]: Sure +**\<scoobybejesus>** there seemed to be rough consensus on that +**\<IRC-Source\_89>** thank you +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** dEBRUYNE: great, thank you. Ping el00ruobuob\_ so he remembers to not PR it +**\<dEBRUYNE>** I don't mind if he PRs it +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** he usally PR them after more than one week, should be fine +**\<dEBRUYNE>** Are we talking about the same thing? :P +**\<dEBRUYNE>** I was referring to the new information thread regarding the fork +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** I was talking about the logs :P i understood you wanted to include them in the thread. +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** but anyway, we should really make a blog post about it. +**\<sech1>** So will the schedule be officially announced soon? +**\<rbrunner>** sgp\_ was fast: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/d7twle/tentative\_monero\_015\_release\_schedule/ +**\<hyc>** sgp already announced it +**\<dEBRUYNE>** sgp\_: Perhaps worthwhile to mention in the comments why there is a bit of a delay +**\<sgp\_>** I don't know what happened with testnet +**\<ErCiccione[m]>** el00ruobuob\_ ignore what i said earlier, we need the logs :P