monero-site/_posts/2019-06-30-logs-for-the-dev-meeting-held-on-2019-06-30.md

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2019-07-20 21:52:56 +00:00
---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2019-06-30
summary: Development status, Code & ticket discussion, and miscellaneous
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto]
author: el00ruobuob / rehrar
---
# Logs
**\<rehrar>** hey guys
**\<rehrar>** it's time for a meeting
**\<rehrar>** as always, we'll try not to drag and make this longer then it needs to be.
**\<rehrar>** 1. Greetings
**\<sarang>** Hi
**\<rbrunner>** Hi!
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** Hi
**\<kinghat>** shalom
**\<rehrar>** Alright. 2. What's been completed since last meeting.
**\<rehrar>** Anyone have an update on stuff?
**\<rehrar>** dsc\_ selsta dEBRUYNE for GUI people?
**\<rehrar>** moneromooo TheCharlatan CLI?
**\<dsc\_>** thecharlatan working on reproducible builds for GUI
**\<rehrar>** fluffypony luigi1111 smooth for Core Team?
**\<dsc\_>** I'm working on better tails integration
**\<dEBRUYNE>** GUI v0.14.1.0 is around the corner
**\<rbrunner>** Ah, that corner?
**\<dsc\_>** I've updated https://autonode.xmr.pm/ to show more remote nodes
**\<moneromooo>** I did some more work on share-rpc, seeing someone's started reviewing.
**\<moneromooo>** It would be nice if more people reviewed, and if someone did something with it
**\<sarang>** moneromooo: do you consider the CLSAG implementation branch suitable for PR/review (not to merge yet, just for review)
**\<moneromooo>** Yes.
**\<moneromooo>** It doens't have your latest changes though.
**\<sarang>** Right, and I plan to update 5707 (and its CLSAG equivalent) again soon
**\<sarang>** those are pretty minor overall
**\<moneromooo>** Then it might not be be ready.
**\<luigi1111>** I don't have an update
**\<dsc\_>** thanks for the update luigi1111
**\<rehrar>** luigi1111: you can update us on the brand of soda the core team drinks as the relax in the lounge
**\<dEBRUYNE>** With respect to a timeline for CLSAG, is October too optimistic? We must also take into account third party wallet providers, which will have to make changes too
**\<rehrar>** thanks everyone for the updates
**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: this is going to be unpopular to say, as it's been discussed before, but if we're "right on the edge" with CLSAG, then why not just push the fork back a month?
**\<sarang>** dEBRUYNE: No final word from potential reviewers yet... I reached out again
**\<sarang>** So I do not have a timeline for CLSAG review
**\<rehrar>** 25% savings in ring sigs is kind of cool and nice to have.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: So push the October fork back to November?
**\<rehrar>** if it'd give us the breathing room that would make enough people more comfortable with the timing, then yes
**\<sarang>** Why not wait until spring?
**\<rehrar>** Ah, wait no. we want RandomX in ASAP, huh?
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** This is 25% savings just for the ring sigs portion, not the entire tx, right? I don't see the reason for the push
**\<rehrar>** so pushing it back maybe isn't great
**\<sarang>** vtnerd\_\_: a 2-2 txn shrinks by 25% overall
**\<sarang>** not just sigs
**\<sarang>** (ring sigs themselves shrink by approx 50%)
**\<rehrar>** oof
**\<rbrunner>** My gut feeling tells me that RandomX and those CLSAG thing together will be a bit too much ...
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** Hmm need to read the paper then, didn't realize it dropped that much
**\<sarang>** you save 320 bytes per spent input
**\<sarang>** and about 20% on sig verification time
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** They are separate things entirely
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** They are either ready independently or not
**\<sarang>** And to clarify, there's working code already that anyone is free to review
**\<sarang>** (verification code will be tweaked a bit still)
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** Yeah the issue was a math review though ... ?
**\<sarang>** Yes, and a formal code review
**\<sarang>** But getting early internal review would be useful
**\<rehrar>** even though waiting on bulletproofs was a good idea, it was still painful to have that six months of big big transactions
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** Oh you wanted both for this too? Ok
**\<rehrar>** that we forever carry
**\<sarang>** vtnerd\_\_: it's important enough that I think both math/code review are important
**\<sarang>** esp. since MLSAG never got a formal audit
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** I mean its either that or risk an entire blow up of the coin
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** In response to rehrar
**\<dEBRUYNE>** sarang: I'd be fine with spring, that at least gives third wallet providers plenty of time to work on it
**\<luigi1111>** I think spring yes
**\<luigi1111>** for clsag
**\<rehrar>** yes, but my suggestion was pushign back a month for audits
**\<rehrar>** which lessens chance of coin blow up
**\<sarang>** Well, I can let everyone know when I hear back from our potential reviewers
**\<sarang>** OSTIF are also putting out feelers
**\<dEBRUYNE> \<rehrar>** yes, but my suggestion was pushign back a month for audits \<= Can you elaborate?
**\<dsc\_>** Has anyone heard from fluffy regarding GUI release?
**\<dsc\_>** Has he arrived home yet?
**\<rehrar>** if someone could see into the future, we can both see the outcome of the audits as well as save money by not paying for them
**\<rbrunner>** If we wait with CLSAG until spring, will there be time to build something nice on top of it until then in addition?
**\<sarang>** Also: earlier internal code review may reveal bugs that we can fix before sending code off to the reviewers
**\<sarang>** rbrunner: ?
**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: it's just pushing this fall fork back one month to give some breathing room to get some CLSAG audits in
**\<rbrunner>** Like those famous atomic swaps, or whatever
**\<rehrar>** but as I said I see reasons not to do that. It was more in response to vtnerd\_\_
**\<dEBRUYNE>** dsc\_: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/c6y542/any\_news\_on\_the\_gui\_release/esc02my/
**\<sarang>** DLSAG's key image issue makes it unsuitable for implementation just yet, IMO
**\<sarang>** CLSAG is basically ready without such (known) problems
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: Seems like a bit of a slippery slope
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Seems safer and more prudent to wait six months
**\<dEBRUYNE>** In the grand scheme of things six months isn't that much anyway
**\<rehrar>** I don't disagree, dEBRUYNE
**\<rehrar>** proving alternative viewpoints
**\<rehrar>** although how long six months is in tech and blockchain relatively is much bigger
**\<sarang>** It's pretty moot at this point anyway
**\<sarang>** Until we hear about audits
**\<rbrunner>** Well, I think that "blockchain relative time" has slowed considerably lately
**\<rehrar>** true. So maybe move on.
**\<sarang>** It's a moo point. Like a cow's opinion
**\<rehrar>** rbrunner: not with fireice and ryo nipping at our heels.
**\<sarang>** Doesn't matter
**\<rbrunner>** Lol
**\<rehrar>** Pretty soon we'll be doing coordinated, organized attacks out of fear
**\<rehrar>** alright, moving on
**\<rehrar>** 3. Code/Ticket discussion
**\<rbrunner>** I have used the Go RPC bindings: https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/go-monero-rpc-client
**\<rbrunner>** My 2 PR's to improve on that were just merged today.
**\<rbrunner>** Can confirm that the bloody thing works.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rbrunner: Have you spent any work (or chatted with the team about it) on OB lately?
**\<rbrunner>** Yes, and the ball is definitely in their court now: https://github.com/OpenBazaar/openbazaar-go/issues/1638
**\<moneromooo>** That sounds like a lot of nice work there.
**\<rehrar>** much applause!
**\<rehrar>** Is that something Revuo worthy, you think?
**\<rehrar>** Go RPC stuffs?
**\<rbrunner>** Ah, hmmm, maybe not yet the OpenBazaar stuff, quite early yet.
**\<rbrunner>** RPC is of course ok to mention, maybe other people will use it
**\<rehrar>** Alright, if there's nothing else we can move on
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Nice work rbrunner
**\<rbrunner>** Thanks!
**\<rehrar>** I'm assuming in "Old Business" we don't need to continue discussion on Payment IDs?
**\<dsc\_>** very nice rbrunner
**\<moneromooo>** Only if there are new arguments.
**\<rehrar>** going once
**\<rehrar>** going twicee
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rbrunner: "and no support for moderation" \<= Is that even feasible at this point?
**\<rehrar>** hearing none, I think we can move on from PIDs
**\<rbrunner>** Doubtful, unfortunately.
**\<rehrar>** Ok, any other meeting items?
**\<rehrar>** Just as kind of announcement. People going to Vegas for Defcon, some of us are going a couple days early (starting monday the 5th) to hang out and chill. All are invited and welcome.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rbrunner: I guess they could apply a similar process as bisq for moderation
**\<dEBRUYNE> \<rehrar>** I'm assuming in "Old Business" we don't need to continue discussion on Payment IDs? \<= I think the rough consensus was that we should start with a full software removal first
**\<dEBRUYNE>** (please correct me if I am wrong)
**\<rbrunner>** Don't remember exactly, isn't Bisq multisig-based as well?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Partly (for the BTC part)
**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: every core team member that spoke up (in the issue) was very against that. Smooth, ArticMine, binaryFate
**\<moneromooo>** I'll keep the parsing code with an opt-in flag in monerod I think.
**\<rbrunner>** to hang out and chill \<- is that even allowed for Monero people?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: No?
**\<rehrar>** ohhhh wait
**\<rehrar>** never mind, I'm speaking of PID removal in general
**\<rehrar>** not long
**\<dEBRUYNE>** They were against parsing tx\_extra / temporary ban
**\<rehrar>** I got confused cuz you said "software removal 'first' "
**\<rehrar>** and thought you were hinting at the reversal later
**\<rehrar>** my bad
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Hmm no
**\<dEBRUYNE>** As far as I know, no one was against a full software removal
**\<rehrar>** cool
**\<dEBRUYNE>** There were people opposed against (i) temporary banning the tx\_extra field, (ii) permanently banning the tx\_extra field, (iii) parsing the tx\_extra field to disallow long payment IDs
**\<rehrar>** then we gucci
**\<sarang>** Define "full software removal" for clarity, plz?
**\<sarang>** As in, no GUI option to add one for outgoing?
**\<rehrar>** as I understand, Isthmus says he has some very interesting research going on about "treasures" found in th tx\_extra field
**\<rehrar>** I'd like to see that research when it happens, and we can discuss the pros and cons afterwards
**\<rbrunner>** Huh? Really?
**\<moneromooo>** In fact, I already made that code. I have shitloads of stuff that's not being PRed just because it conflicts due to merging being stalled now
**\<rbrunner>** That does not sound too good ...
**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: Do you have a list for luigi that he can merge?
**\<moneromooo>** Yes.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Could you post it here too?
**\<moneromooo>** Sure. One moment...
**\<dEBRUYNE>** sarang: removal from both CLI and GUI
**\<sarang>** With no option to enable via flags?
**\<moneromooo>** 5647/5666, 5650/5651, 5663/5664, 5668/5669, 5675/5676, 5678/5684 (there's more)
**\<dEBRUYNE>** That was my idea kind of
**\<moneromooo>** and 5690/5694, 5681/5708.
**\<sarang>** Note that this could cause some exchanges/services to recommend specific wallets (that do continue to support) to their users
**\<sarang>** which could be good or bad, depending on the wallets
**\<dEBRUYNE>** That's a potential risk, yes
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I deem it more likely that they will simply switch though
**\<moneromooo>** I could keep the --enable-paymend-id-bad-for-privacy, and instead of enabling them, it prints "lolno".
**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: Will send luigi the list in PM as a reminder
**\<moneromooo>** Oh I did
**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE sarang this is all one big experiment. I'd say let's try it this way and see how the exchanges react
**\<moneromooo>** I just don;t want to annoy him too much.
**\<rehrar>** if they don't do as we hope, then we learn from that next time we have to make a decision like this
**\<rehrar>** but this is all hypothetical at this time. Let's see what happens.
**\<rbrunner>** I really doubt that the exchanges have time on their hands to work against the community, but who knows
**\<rehrar>** well, we do have LiveCoin
**\<moneromooo>** If they recommend other wallets, I won't have any regret in breaking those in next fork ^\_^
**\<rehrar>** either way
**\<rehrar>** 4. Any last meeting items?
**\<sarang>** 5707 speeds up MLSAG, and will be sped up a bit more
**\<moneromooo>** Does anyoine want to review share-rpc ? Or did I mention that already...
**\<sarang>** review will be welcome
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: Should we perhaps discuss v0.14.1.1?
**\<dEBRUYNE> \<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE sarang this is all one big experiment. I'd say let's try it this way and see how the exchanges react \<= Yes
**\<dEBRUYNE>** To be fair, it is mostly the big ones that are remaining that we need to get on board
**\<rehrar>** moneromooo: I'll put it in the REvuo volunteer opportunities (for all the good that will do)
**\<moneromooo>** AFAIK it's waiting for a freebsd patch from TheCharlatan.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Bittrex, Bitfinex, and Binance
**\<rehrar>** moneromooo: can you PM me a link to it
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** moneromooo: I will look at it this week
**\<moneromooo>** https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/5357
**\<moneromooo>** Thanks
**\<rehrar>** thank you
**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: what do you want to discuss regarding 0.14.1.1?
**\<rehrar>** the floor is yours
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Timeline kind of, what do the devs prefer?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** We can move a bit faster now that we have deterministic builds
**\<moneromooo>** As soon as the bsd patch is in.
**\<moneromooo>** (and the patches above)
**\<rehrar>** I may be getting confused because of the numbers, but didn't pony do builds already?
**\<rehrar>** or this is new? what's going into it?
**\<moneromooo>** The BSD patch and the patch list above.
**\<rehrar>** ah, k
**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: All right. Does this need a release v0.14 equivalent? https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/5705
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: new release
**\<moneromooo>** I dunno, ask TheCharlatan about this one.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** All right
**\<rehrar>** ok, anything else to discuss about this release?
**\<moneromooo>** The GUI I suppose ^\_^
**\<rehrar>** by all means, moneromooo. Take it away.
**\<moneromooo>** I don't have anything to say about it.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** GUI will follow CLI for v0.14.1.1
**\<dEBRUYNE>** First have to wait for pony to finish the v0.14.1.0 builds though
**\<moneromooo>** There are missing builds for .0 ? I didn't even realize...
**\<rehrar>** pony is traveling again
**\<rehrar>** he does that
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Yes
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Also we kind of had to retag, which has delayed the release a bit
**\<moneromooo>** Gonna run out of places to go soon.
**\<rehrar>** he's running from the community methinks.
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** Me? Lol I'm in a car on lte so I dropped service once and hit leave once stupidly
**\<dEBRUYNE>** rehrar: He provided an update yesterday
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Anyway, vtnerd\_\_ I wanted to ask you if you had already started some work on dandelion++ ?
**\<rehrar>** dEBRUYNE: link?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/c6y542/any\_news\_on\_the\_gui\_release/esc02my/
**\<rehrar>** alright, if there's nothign else, I think we can call it here.
**\<rehrar>** discussion can obviously continue after the fact
**\<vtnerd\_\_>** I started to look into it. At this point my ffs pt 2 is hopefully going to make that transition easier (but it won't be a complete d++ implementation)
**\<rehrar>** Two weeks from now is the 14th of July. Same time.